Was pastor Russell right about ANYTHING?

by bohm 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • besty
    besty

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/171337/1/WANTED-JW-Apologist

    for anybody that wants to see JW apologists go quiet in the heat of debate see above - here's a quick summary:

    1 - Being a Jehovahs Witness requires that you accept their unique beliefs.

    2 - Evidently Jesus chose them as his sole channel in 1919 but he neglected to tell them until later on.

    3 - They don't have any unique beliefs from the pre-1919 period that they still hold true today - there is no evidence - see Point 1.

    4 - The WTS is the de facto Mediator - all cults need to create an in-between role and with JWs its the FDS doctrine

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Evidently CT Russell was incapable of conceiving a single original theological idea. According to Ray Franz, one GB member confessed to him that most of CT Russell's doctrines, and certainly all of his more important ones, were got from the Second Adventists. Thus, if he was right about anything and time has shown that he was not, he would have to attribute that to someone else.

    Cheers

  • Borgia
    Borgia

    When he said the end would come in 1916 he was right ..... HE died ...

    Cheers

    Borgia

  • treadnh2o
    treadnh2o

    Alcohol is the best way to deal with things.

  • ninja
    ninja

    "a new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes "older light", But adds to it."

  • besty
    besty

    if he was right about anything (and that is a big if, assuming one doesn't belief in the Christian concept of God) he wasn't uniquely so - anything he cobbled together was begged, borrowed or stolen.

    Same goes for Rutherford, Knorr and Franz. And the make-do-and-mend approach since Franz died. Its all complete BS.

  • bohm
    bohm

    okay, so mixed responses :-). i take it the 144000 was yet another thing he got from second adventists? is the question "russell did not come up with any original doctrines that are not dropped today?" something one can bet a beer on? :-) .

  • RR
    RR

    Russell didn't write THE FINISHED MYSTERY

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Was pastor Russell right about ANYTHING?

    There was a book called the Bible.

  • glenster
    glenster

    "glenster: so what you say is that the following things was thought
    up by russell and is still believed today:"

    ? No--I meant anyone could be right in claiming relative
    exclusiveness by stringing together such a silly combination
    and requiring agreement with it just to be in his little group.


    "global warming [if you tilt your head and squeeze your eyes together, anyway
    :-)]"

    You'd have to squint till your eyes close and let daydreaming take over.

    Global warming is a fact, but I meant that it's weird that the
    Wikipedia article on Russell credits him for predicting global
    warming, which could only be the conclusion after quote-mining and
    changing what Russell actually wrote.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    The claim that what he predicted was remarkably like a current scientific
    understanding of global warming (especially if the claim includes that Russell
    was so accurate he must have had a communication from God) is false. See his
    actual predictions in the article at the next link.
    http://www.pastor-russell.com/legacy/warming.html

    He made a prediction about the "close of the Millennial Age," which is when?
    When the accuracy of Russell's predictions can be determined (the time of the
    creation of the earth, when 144,000 Jews would live in Palistine, etc.), he got
    his dates wrong. Otherwise, appearances by invisible people are hard to prove
    as better than arbitrary. Russell claimed the weather changes he described were
    beginning to happen as he wrote (1883-1913) and were leading to Paradise.

    He predicted the world would become more like the Garden of Eden--"cyclones,
    earthquakes, thunderbolts, and alternations of drouth and deluge, and of bliz-
    zards of cold and simoons of heat" would disappear. Not that I've noticed.

    According to Wikipedia: "An increase in global temperature will cause sea
    levels to rise and will change the amount and pattern of precipitation, probably
    including expansion of subtropical deserts. The continuing retreat of glaciers,
    permafrost and sea ice is expected, with warming being strongest in the Arctic.
    Other likely effects include increases in the intensity of extreme weather
    events, species extinctions, and changes in agricultural yields."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    It also says global warming, which we currently speak of and which it gives as
    detrimental, has been noticed "since the mid-20th century," not the start of it.

    Russell claimed the orientation of the polar ice caps would move toward the
    equator. I haven't heard anything about that in the news.

    The size of polar ice, notably in the Artic, has gotten bigger and smaller
    over the years, currently smaller. But he claimed both ice caps were steadilly
    decreasing as he wrote (1883-1913) and would move toward the equator, which
    would get cooler as tempertures over the earth equalized. He predicted God
    would cause all these things to continue until the Paradise Russell described
    would result, which isn't what happened nor what an alarmed scientific community
    predicts.

    According to a Wikipedia article about the "Instrumental temperature record":

    "The period for which reasonably reliable instrumental records of near-surface
    temperature exist with quasi-global coverage is generally considered to begin
    around 1850." "Most of the observed warming occurred during two periods: 1910
    to 1945 and 1976 to 2000; the cooling/plateau from 1945 to 1976 has been mostly
    attributed to sulphate aerosol."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_temperature_record

    Russell probably just saw a report of Alaska or the Artic going through a
    warming period and took the idea out of context, embellished it, and added it to
    the rest of his hokey prophet routine. He didn't try to be so exclusive that he
    defined God as sulphate aerosol, either, although that would be different.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_shrinkage
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica#Effects_of_global_warming

    Russell predicted temperatures around the world would become the same, which
    he claims was the case before the flood of Noah's ark, which he interpreted
    literally and described as preceded by even temperatures around the earth due to
    a water canopy that fell to create the flood. None of that is taken seriously
    in science, which also doesn't see it as developing since the early 1900's or
    expect it to happen later, either..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_geology


    "Christianity should not be about charity [pretty vague]"

    Again, I meant that one of the silly things anyone could use as part of their
    combo meant for exclusiveness as a Christian leader is to come out publicly
    against Christian churches which believe in the Golden Rule and perform charity.
    (Actually, that was a weird way for Russell to claim Christian authenticity....)
    See the section on "Love and money: Miracle Wheat and Charles' divorce from
    Maria" after 1908 on the timeline at the next link.
    http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id12.html

    Russell criticized mainstream Christianity for charity drives and claimed
    taking money to publish his literature was more important:

    "The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was held up to scorn because it
    did not have any hospital work, nor draw any revenue from taxations, and
    because the female members of the Society do not visit the workshops of
    the land weekly or monthly on pay day and exact donations to its work. Our
    society was held up to scorn because we do not send a wagon around the
    city collecting groceries and provisions for the upkeep of our work; be-
    cause we do not take up collections, even on Sunday; because we have never
    solicited a penny or a dollar from anybody; and because we never have
    fairs, grab-bags, 'chances,' or 'raffles.' Our society was held up to rid-
    icule because it offers its literature free to the poor while other simi-
    lar societies charge both rich and poor alike for their tracts and other
    publications."

    He probably felt that adding his fondness for socking the money away in
    dummy companies, etc., as a way to avoid paying higher alimony might be
    considered too controversial for people not so close to the light.

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