Need Questions

ufo1

Hello to all,

I used to post here a while back as 2112 and I am posting again. I have continued to read but have just been too busy to post.

Anyhow, over to past few years my JW wife has aced if the elders could "talk" to me. I have been out since '92. I have always said no, only because I didn't want to bother. I have met many elders in her congregation and they have been very nice and pleasant so I have no problem with then as individuals. My son was recently baptized and my wife told me that he made a comment at a meeting…”I hope that by my example my dad will come back”. I think she was trying to gauge my reaction, of course I gave none. So I am expecting her to ask me again if the elders could talk to me. I am considering saying yes. Not because I would ever go back but I would like to have a chance to make my stance known and some of the reasons why I won’t go back. I think if I did it this way by letting them come to me they can’t then say I’m attacking them.

I know it is probably an effort in futility but I figure what the hell. So here is my idea. I will tell the elders that I have many issues but I will limit our discussion to five to ten questions. These guys may indulge me they may not but it won’t hurt to try. So what I could use form the board, if you so choose, are some questions (and the supporting arguments) that if they actually look at may show them the errors of the WT. Some I have in mind are 1.) The Blood Issue, fractions, dietary etc. 2.) The child molestation issue, the court cases etc. 3.) 607 4.) I was also thinking about honest scholarship and in doing so use the Trinity brochure and checking all the references. Not saying if I believe in the Trinity or not but just focusing on scholarship and honesty.

Are there any other questions that would be good, and what order should I present and questions. That way if I only get them to discuss one or two questions the few I ask may make an impact. Again I know they probably won’t go for this but I am still going to try. Any help would be truly appreciated. Thanks much

jamiebowers

I hate to pee on your parade, but you better leave well enough alone. If you say anything against the borg or its beliefs, you are looking to get df'd. And then your newly baptized son will not be able to speak to you. Walk softly while carrying a big stick Your son may need you someday.

civicsi00

I just had a hearing with the elders at my house last week. It did not go well because they are trained to not answer your questions and question your motive or outright assume you're being influenced by the internet/apostates.

I haven't had a chance to post up a full summary of what took place, but it was very revealing, at least to me.

I was prepared with a few quotes and scans of Watchtower magazines, but they didn't care. At one point in the conversation, I stated that IF Jehovah and Jesus picked the 'faithful slave' in 1919, then there would be ample evidence of it at least in the magazines of that year. I then stated that there was none, only that it was being taught that Russell was that 'slave'. One of the elders then stated (and I do not joke when I say this): "Well OK, so Jehovah didn't have a 'faithful slave' in 1919.. But the Bible clearly states that He would have one on earth, and that's at Matthew 24:45."

This elder, whether he realized it or not, just confirmed for me how blind they are. It doesn't matter what the Society says, said, or did, they are still blindly obedient. It doesn't even matter if the Society's history is accurate.

UFO1, if you make yourself sound sincere, then they won't immediately label you an apostate and continue with a good conversation. But, and I mean this with all due respect, what do you expect to get out of this by talking to the elders? If you make a stand, you risk losing your family.

You said:

I think if I did it this way by letting them come to me they can’t then say I’m attacking them.

Unfortunately your family may not see it this way. They may come to see you as the enemy, even though the elders are/will be pursuing you. The elders of my KH came after me (I haven't attended since 2007) and even after I told my mom this, she still thinks I need to be "humble" and "accept the discipline of Jehovah".

ufo1

I guess i did not clairify, I am already Df'ed. (My unforgivable sin was to allow my df'ed best friend to console me when my mother died.)

So I am not worried about what they think they can do to me. As for my son, if he eventually decides he will shun me then he would make that choice weather or not I talk to the elders. As for now, he got baptized because his friends did last year, and he was being pressured by them and his mom. He and I talk and he does not, as of now, believe it all. And he sdoes not like treating people badly.

bluecanary

You already being DF'd is an important detail. In that case, you can still try to talk to the elders, but like civic said, they are trained not to listen to you or answer any questions. I would only do it if I thought my family would witness it and come to see how manipulative and ignorant the elders are.

This thread has my questions and the accompanying research.

I recommend teaching your son to recognize logical fallacies. Make a game of it. Offer to pay him a dollar for each one he finds. It could save his life.

jamiebowers

If you follow through with your plans, you will be df'd and an apostate.

Out at Last!

I agree with most of the advise you have been given. It will be like chasing your own tail, you may get a little verbal exercise, but to no benefit. The elders will not answer your questions/concerns. They will double talk and change the subject continually when they feel threatened or do not know how to answer. You will not change their minds, they have drank the koolaide for far too long to think rationally and for themselves. If you do decide to go through with your plan, make sure to let us know how it turns out.

Black Sheep

If you meet with them only ask one question. Make it a good one. Know it extreeeemly well. Know the answers they will give before you ask it.

Don't let them change the subject. They are slippery buggers and have numerous ways of avoiding answering a question. Nail their feet to the floor. You must control the direction of the conversation at all times. Show no mercy. They don't.

Do it with your family present so that they can hear you deal to them.

Repeat after me:

Don't change the subject, don't let them change the subject.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Chris

Black Sheep

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/55372/1/586-587-the-K-I-S-S-approach-no-VAT4956-Ptolemy-Josephus-needed

This might work for you if you have the 1965 Volumes or the WTCD.

Whatever subject you choose, it should be one where you have the documentation on your bookshelf or in the WTCD.

Get the point across when they arrive that they are there to answer your questions, you are not there to answer theirs. They will want to ask questions to infer bad motives, change the subject, etc.,etc.,etc.,etc.,etc.

If they are having trouble answering your question, let them go home and do some research, but get them to commit to a date to come back with the answer. They must leave right then. Show them the door. They do not get a chance to chat about something else. Be firm but friendly.

Cheers

Chris

designs

civic00

You're right the brake lines got cut a long time ago and the truck is in runaway mode.

Historical accuracy means little at this stage of the game and the flock is helpless and indifferent to change things.

Need Questions

Share this