by jonathan dough 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
Re: Heaven.
Enoch went to Heaven, so did Elijah, this is "stated" in the OT.
We also know that during the transfiguration episode of jesus in the Gospels that Moses and Elijah were there with Jesus.
This is not in contridiction with biblical teachings because itis sated that the spirit goes back to God and where is God? in Heaven, so our spirit is in Heaven after we die.
Can you prove that there is a "heaven," as such term is used by religions/cults? If so, can you prove that any humans have gone there after death? No, you can't, so the argument is meaningless, since the foundation it is based upon is entirely devoid of any basis other than a fictional book written by man for the purpose of exploiting and controlling other men and women.
144001,
Can I prove there is a heaven?
Yes I can, but I'd have to kill you, but since you aren't in any rush maybe you can just wait for death to find out.
Can I prove there is a heaven? Yes I can, but I'd have to kill you, but since you aren't in any rush maybe you can just wait for death to find out.
Theists are known for their homicidal tendencies; an irony given that many if not most of them consider themselves to be "pro life."
Thiests just wanna send everone to heaven, is that so wrong ?
144001, the existence of heaven is not meant to be "proven." It's about faith. By grace you (well, maybe not you) were saved through faith. We can't prove the resurrection of the dead, either. Under your standard, no one would be saved.
Here is some more symbolism in Rev.
First, Rev. 7:4-8 states that the 144,000 came from every tribe of the Israelites and then lists the names of what appear to be the original twelve tribes, but are not. As the Jehovah’s Witnesses point out “there never was a tribe of Joseph, the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list here, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the twelve tribes. See Numbers 1:4-16” (Reasoning 166, 167). As such, the Jehovah’s Witnesses view the twelve tribes of the 144,000 symbolically.
Secondly, the sealed 144,000 listed are Jews, yet the Jehovah’s Witnesses regard this as symbolic as well for they believe they are comprised of both Jews and gentiles. (Reasoning, 166, 167).
Third, whereas the listed 144,000 are made up of twelve distinct groups of twelve thousand members each, the Jehovah’s Witnesses also regard these numbers as symbolic. They have never classified or categorized those who go to heaven in twelve groups of 12,000 yet are quick to calculate them literally to arrive at 144,000 (12 x 12,000 = 144,000).
Fourth, the “seal on the foreheads of the servants” (Rev. 7:3), and the Lamb and His Father’s names which are written on the foreheads of the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1) represent figuratively, for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, God’s final approval. In their words, “God’s holy spirit serves as a seal that gives those sealed a token in advance of their inheritance, a heavenly one” (Insight, 253, 254). It is symbolic.
Can any JWs prove this wrong?
JD II
The earthly "Hope" was thought up one drunken night by Rutherford when he realised that 144,000 was a small figure as his sales organization grew exponentially.
I know he was not an original thinker, many other 19th centuary religions had a similar idea, and Chuck Russell laid the ground work for the theory, but it is still a spirit (Bourbon) fuelled idea, nothing to do with scripture.
Love
Wobble
Revelation 7:4 literally states that the 144,000 elect are virgin men: “These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact they are virgins.” But as anyone familiar with the Jehovah’s Witnesses knows, the 144,000 are comprised of men and women, married and single; they regard these provisions symbolically as well.
144001, the existence of heaven is not meant to be "proven." It's about faith. By grace you (well, maybe not you) were saved through faith. We can't prove the resurrection of the dead, either. Under your standard, no one would be saved.
I see, it's not meant to be proven; but it's clear the objective is for it to be believed. "Believe what I say despite the fact that I've provided you no proof that it is true." Could it be that the lack of proof is attributable to the fact that it doesn't exist?
I'm really curious what any of us need to be saved from. More efforts by cults/religions to fleece us for our money and to control our lives?
