Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?

nicolaou

One question that stretched theologians during the middle ages was; Could God envision or make a four sided triangle or a three sided square or some other atrocity. At first the problem seems foolish, but it really is an instance of a more fundamental problem: Is God bound and limited by the laws of reason and logic or not?

I've had this conversation on JWD before but I was never satisfied with it. ( here )

God is either omnipotent or not, there is no middle ground. Can he really do anything he pleases, logic and reason notwithstanding? It is inconceivable to me that anyone, even God - can make 1+1=3.

What do you think? Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?

tinker

according to many JW's I have asked, yes Jah can do ANYTHING. According to the physical laws they say he put in place when he created the universe he could not. Unless he changed all natural laws that direct life as we know it, imo, no he could not. The Butterfly effect would come into play. Even the flutter of a butterfly wing causes some change in the atmosphere so again IMO, God is bound by the very laws he made.

tinker

I will add that this very issue kept me awake many a night and was and is the very reason I am no longer a JW = reasoning abiltiy

Farkel

: Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?

If he can, then he can also obligerate himself into nonexistence and then recreate himself from the pieces? What happens when an irresistible force runs into an immovable object?

These types of questions go nowhere, but they are always fun to pull on the people who claim God is omnipotent.

If God was omnispresent why did he have to "go looking" and "calling out" for Adam?

If God is omnibenevolent, why didn't he forgive Adam and Eve, or why did he destroy the planet in the Noachian flood?

If God is omniscient, why did he even bother with "testing Adam and Eve" or Abraham with sacrificing Isaac? Or create all that tragedy for Job? Wouldn't he have known the outcomes already? In the case of Job, Satan must have known God would know the outcome too. Why then, did Satan even bother to waste his time with Job?

If God is omniscient and omnibenevolent, he must know about all human suffering now and ever before and he must care enough to fix it (omnibenevolent beings are like that, you know), but he doesn't, so he must either NOT be omnipotent, or omnibenevolent.

I'm waiting for the apologists to make excuses for the God they attribute with so many awesome qualities!

Which beg this question, "if BibleGod(tm) is such hot shit, how come people spent so much time making excuses for him?"

Farkel

believingxjw

"Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?"

No. Jesus could not create a rock so heavy that God could not lift it.

John 1:3 "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

parakeet

Could God envision or make a four sided triangle or a three sided square or some other atrocity.

No, but M.C. Escher could.

http://images.ask.com/pictures?qsrc=8&q=escher&o=13721&l=dis

bluecanary

My boyfriends answer: he believes there are things in this universe that we cannot comprehend and our minds refuse to recognize them. Our minds substitute more familiar things for things that exist outside of our perception. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Like the Q on Star Trek. They only appear as humans because the humans couldn't comprehend them in their true form.

I think that's an interesting take on the subject.

Farkel

:he believes there are things in this universe that we cannot comprehend and our minds refuse to recognize them

Yes, that is exactly the same malady true believers suffer from when they encounter that pesky phenomenon known as "facts." They are unable to comprehend them in their minds and refuse to recognize them.

Farkel

tinker

I give 2 1/2 **'s and the Vulcan sign to bluecanary's boyfriend. Live long and prosper.

and 4**** to M.C. Escher = WOW

sir82

It's all quite moot, but I've always wondered why the God defenders don't use this type of argument more often:

God is the one who sets the rules, what he says goes. He does not obey rules of logic, as if these were independent and superior to him, he creates the rules of logic.

So if God were to do something that, to our imperfect, less-than-God eyes would appear to be illogical, at the moment of his doing it, that action would immediately form the new "true" logic.

I.e., he could create a "four-sided triangle" if he chose to - and at the moment he did so, from that point on, all triangles would have 4 sides.

Of course, the implications of that would lead to the universe being annihilated or some such thing, so we wouldn't be around to observe the new 4-sided triangle universe.

Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?

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