Our “Bible Study” with the Jehovah’s Witnesses (Part 2)

by garyneal 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jonathan dough

  If the society believes that is true, then why doesnt

  all of the new testament only apply to the anointed , for instance the preaching work, etc. If you want to shut a jws mouth

  then ask them that question.

  That's a good point as well. The answer is they cherry-pick it. They can never adequately explain why some verses apply to the GCrowd but not others. It is just a matter of their convenience. Of course their logic falls apart when they can't defend their literal 144,000 theory. It utterly collapses.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
• 

  Perry

  I had an elder flat out tell me right before I got baptized that the NT wasn't written for me, but was written to the 144,000. Anyone know of a printed version of this doctrine?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The wording here seems to prove that Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the assurance of their salvation and explains why they must work so hard in their ministry. It quotes Matthew 24:13 to justify that statement.

  That is precisely correct. JW's are taught that they must work to the end of this system to be in line for salvation. Don't ever stop working for the organization or you are doomed.

  What is interesting here is that they continue to omit the importance of the Holy Spirit spoken of by Jesus Christ that is provided to 'teach us of all matters of truth,' to comfort us, and intervene for us.
  
  It only mentions the 'spirit-directed organization' as if the Holy Spirit speaks only to the governing body. This is evident in paragraph 15 where the article states "Both at our meetings and through our personal study of Bible publications, we can see Jehovah's spirit at work, directing his organization." (italics mine) Notice it did not say 'our personal study of the Bible.' Since only the governing body directs the organization the conclusion I made about the Holy Spirit speaking only to them seems valid. Any Jehovah's Witness reading this is free to refute this conclusion provided you can actually back it up.

  The Organization teaches that Jehovah's spirit only goes to the 144,000 (literal) anointed ones on earth who will go to heaven. Further, His spirit works through the organization by working through the Governing Body, a representative of those 144,000. The rest of the members just receive spirit by cooperating with the Governing Body's directions and reading their Bible/WT literature everyday. Just so you know, most of us here are aware that these are dangerous cult mind-control tactics. They tell us to put trust in the men who run the organization and tell us that we are unfaithful to God if we don't. They tell us that they are God's representative (indirectly, granted) and if we just read what they tell us (and nothing else) they can prove it to us.
• 

  jonathan dough

  I had an elder flat out tell me right before I got baptized that the NT wasn't written for me, but was written to the 144,000. Anyone know of a printed version of this doctrine?

  I would also like to see that because it is one of their most often cited doctrines when you pin them down.
• 

  moshe

  Holy Spirt, it does this, does that, sees this, sees that, does or doesn't do this, heals one minute and doesn't the next, but it's all god's will, etc. The Holy Spirt is sure hard figure out- it acts almost like, uh, coincidence. When I got appointed as an elder back in 1975, the wheels started turning. I didn't quailfy to be an elder, but I just figured why should I "out" myself over something JW's said was verbotten. I would just lay low and the appointment would be denied- all thanks to the Holy Spirit. Surprise! My appointment sailed through with flying colors. Later, I even tested the all knowing Holy Spirit numerous times and you know what? Jehovah's organization never smelled a rat. I even tested the Holy Spirt later at a revival meeting, after I went back to Christianity . I went up front to receive the Holy Spirt. I had an open mind and when they laid hands on me, I didn't fall over. Now they tried to "help" me, but I just stood there and looked down at the ones on the floor. I smiled at one lady and I could tell she knew what I knew, too. They put on a nice show- I think some of them were shills. They hustled me off to the side of the stage. The only time the spirt seemed to speak to me was when I asked the founding elders and pastor at a Vineyard Church, "who owned the impressive church and controlled the money?" Yes, they loved that one. This was my second wife's church and she loved all the speaking in tongues, laying on the hands, the healing prayers. Just don't ask about finances.

  Anyway, back to JW land, I remember now, Ray Franz told me about 20 years ago that only the "process" used by the WT was by the Holy Spirt, not the actual selection of the elders. Like an election being a legal process, but there are no guarantees that trustworthy men get elected. Of course he knew at that point it was a joke up in Bethel. He was still looking for the true abode of the hokey spirit back then. We have religious Jews who believe in a form of the holy sprirt, at least I have heard of them. They say there are who people have seen a UFO, too.
• 

  DaCheech

  reminds me of their public talk outline "making a good name with god...."

  they keep on reminding us that many great people of the world are forgotten, but the ones from jw's big org. are never forgotten. also in their talk they keep on stressing how important it is to do these "continuing and faithful works". "gotta sacrifice your family to the watchtower" and "don't work overtime" and "go to assemblies" and "bla bla bla"

  works, works, works...... i was listening to these talks and just rolling my eyes
• 

  Black Sheep

  The subject matter was somehow dropped (or got changed, not really sure now)

  Yep, they try it every time.

  You should have a good read of Isaiah 40+ as there are more scriptures in the same vein.

  Two verses later it says ".... Does there exist a God besides me? No, there is no Rock. I have recognized none.’”

  Verse 24; "“I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?
  " paired up with John 1:3; "All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
  "

  In the long run, it doesn't make much difference as they don't actually believe the Bible anyway. They just give lip service to the notion that they do. That's why I don't bother playing Bible ping pong with them. It can be fun though, and if you enjoy the game, go for it.

  Try to take the ping out of it and just let it pong.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  blondie

  *** w06 6/1 p. 24 par. 12 Jehovah Tells "From the Beginning the Finale" ***Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Philippians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5, 11; 2 Peter 1:10, 11)
• 

  jonathan dough

  double post
• 

  jonathan dough

  *** w06 6/1 p. 24 par. 12 Jehovah Tells "From the Beginning the Finale" ***Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Philippians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5, 11; 2 Peter 1:10, 11)

  Perfect. Thank you for that.

  JD II