Believers Eternal Security vs. Tribulation Salvation (page 5)

Deputy Dog

Perry Before I comment, I'd like to ask you a question. In Hebrews 10:29 where we see the phrase " wherewith he was sanctified". Who is the "he" referring to? The one doing the trodding or the Son of God? Keep in mind the context is the superiority of the blood of Christ over common blood of animals.

Deputy Dog

Perry

In Hebrews 10:29 where we see the phrase " wherewith he was sanctified". Who is the "he" referring to? The one doing the trodding or the Son of God?

The reason I asked this question was in light of this verse

Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

It has much to do with how the word "sanctify" is used by the author of:

The verses in Hebrews speak of a person who had "received the knowledge of the truth." Not only that, "he was sanctified." But something happened. He drew "back unto perdition!" He lost his salvation!!

As for II Peter 2:19-21

Salvation during the Tribulation is based on both faith and works. Jesus, himself, said that love toward God, whom we can't see (faith); and love toward our neighbor, whom we can see (works) are the two commandments upon which hang all the law and prophets. (Matthew 22:36-40). The Old Testament Jewish saints were required to obey God's commandments to be and to stay saved. The Tribulation saints will be required to have faith in Christ and keep the commandments by helping their neighbors. Time after time this theme is expounded. (Matthew 10:40-42; Matthew 19:16-21; Luke 10:25-37; Hebrews 6:10; Hebrews 10:24; James 1:22-27; James 2:1-9; I Peter 1:22) In fact, God determines the disposition of the nations according to how they treat the Jew during the Tribulation. (Matthew 25:31-46)

I think he uses his preconception of a "pretrib rapture" to interpret scripture.

Deputy Dog

Perry

During the Tribulation, if a person has faith in Christ and helps his neighbor then Christ will dwell in him. If he breaks one of these commandments his former righteousness does not count, just as it was in the Old Testament. One must endure to the end and not be overcome. (II Peter 2:20)

This is the most obvious example of this author not understanding the Grace of God. As Christians we have no "righteousness" of our own. The only righteousness we ever have, is the righteousness Christ gives (the works of Jesus on our behalf). We can never do meritorious works on our own behalf.

Perry

I had to leave town. I'll respond here in a little while.

Deputy Dog

Perry

Did you forget about this thread?

Perry

No, I haven't. I have come across other problems with a "Tribulation Salvation" .

I resolved James.

Certain statements by Jesus seem to be pretty well summed up here:

John 6: 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I'm still working through the Hebrews scriptures.

Many thanks to you and Mad Dawg for your input so far.

moshe

Christianity is so confusing to me now. Back and forth everyone goes- it makes your head dizzy. For an understanding of how Jews view forgivness of sins you need to personally experience Yom Kippur, which just ended on Monday night. So try again next year. In my discussion with two JW sisters today, I told them I was Jewish and they said, "that's fine", and they proceeded to continue using the NT Bible quotes for authority. I tried to explain to her- the NT is your book and the Hebrew Bible is the Jew's book. Jews do not attempt to dictate what the correct interpretation of your holy NT book is, so why do you think you can interpret our book and it's words and then dictate to a Jew that your interpretation is correct? If the Rabbis tell us that the Garden of Eden story is allegory, not literal and original sin does not exist, then why not try and accept that?

Perry

If the Rabbis tell us that the Garden of Eden story is allegory, not literal and original sin does not exist, then why not try and accept that?

Do all Rabbis believe that?

Believers Eternal Security vs. Tribulation Salvation

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