by asilentone 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
So Stephen are you saying ALL (Every single one) is denied salvation?
Seriously?
You cannot discern the individual based on religious affliation..... besides if anything you might have picked up on from JWN is that while there are many JWs who follow men in regards to shuning, there are many who are just as likely to not personally believe or even understand the whole teachings of the WTS.
But then again I am one of those who YOU don't considered 'saved'......
About "Romans 10:13", and in JWN, the person who posts repeatedly may become a winner, rather than attacking in logic.
Well, he is persistent, I think.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/180248/2/Romans-10-13-got-owned-in-a-jw-study-need-help-with-greek
possible
As in another thread, I think that the Watch Tower society says "Hostility to God's name" because there is a person like him.
I think that his act is interfering with the person who is going to leave from the JW's organization, IMO.
Well, usually, all Jehovah's Witnesses love the divine name.
So, even if he denies it, since Jehovah's Witnesses love the divine name, probably they will refuse his explanation.
I'm sorry.
The edit time for 30 minutes is too short for me.
It is the thought of almost all Jehovah's Witnesses which this video is expressing.
So Stephen are you saying ALL (Every single one) is denied salvation?
Thats a good question Ynot, I hope you don't mind me interjecting here.
I thought the scriptures Stephen posted were very good and made the point well, however we can't judge others, we can only surmise.
I personally know JW's who are loving and kind by nature but the Society require them to put aside this natural tendancy to follow rules instead. Hence the shunning policy. So who is accountable? The one making the rules or the one following them to the letter?
I can't help but think at this point about the trials at Nuremberg after the war. Ordinary German men and women went on trial for horrendous war crimes and much of their defence was based on "we were only following orders". The judges at these trials dismissed such a defence based on our inbuilt conscience. They claimed that their personal conscience should have stopped them from committing such crimes despite the personal danger or threats they were under from their superiors.
In this way I can't help but wonder what defence a JW would offer when standing in front of Jesus Christ on judgement day. Can they honestly say that "we were only following orders" is going to be an adequate defence for their lack of love?
Yes JW's have been manipulated and lied to, yes they've been the victims of propaganda, yes they've got many years invested in this and yes, they could face punishment and sanctions for disobeying. But the Nazis at Nuremberg could say the same.
If a human judge can see that more weight should be given to a persons conscience, how much more weight would the Judge of us all give to it?
All I can say is I'm thankful Jesus Christ judges all of us (JW's included) as individuals and can read hearts, motives and mitigating circumstances as individuals, something a human judge is less able to do.
Well, there would have to be a 'Kingdom' to inherit before the question is answered.
But that's just me thinking again.
Jeff
What they will inherit is a totalitarian regime, similar to (though worse than) the First Dark Ages.
So Stephen are you saying ALL (Every single one) is denied salvation?
Seriously?
Well, I agree with Boyzone's advise in some respects we can't judge others, we can only surmise
Mind you, let us bear in mind that Paul exhorts us to have good judgement on this earth, as the saints will judge angels 1 Corinthians 6
Also, to surmise suggests a lack of evidence. However, I would say there is a wealth of evidence against the WT doctrines, and unfortunately those who follow them.
You cannot discern the individual based on religious affliation..... besides if anything you might have picked up on from JWN is that while there are many JWs who follow men in regards to shuning, there are many who are just as likely to not personally believe or even understand the whole teachings of the WTS.
All that is important is knowing Jesus.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Is the WT actually bearing "good fruit"? Galatians 5:22-23
Are they actually following the will of the Father? John 5:22-24 John 6:40 John 14:23-24 John 12:26
Or are they something not planted by the Father?
13 He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
Also, note below, the importance Paul places on "according to the scriptures". Even then, there were people preaching a different gospel Galatians 1
1 Corinthians 15 (New International Version)
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.
Paul makes it clear, those who believe a different gospel "believed in vain".
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
How can JWs be saved if they reject the blood of Jesus which saves?
Anyhow, bear these verses in mind
4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
This whole chapter is good on the subject. Note what Paul says concerning the Israelites Romans 10
All the best,
Stephen
Inheriting God's Kingdom....
Has been a denominational debate for centuries, each side posting supporting scriptures.
If we were to lump all of them together we get:
Faith, repentance, baptism, good deeds
Here is the prerequisite to inheriting the Kingdom 2 Corinthians 5:17 Galatians 6:15 John 3:3
JW fail again :(
All the best,
Stephen
