Why it's Dangerous to Associate w/ Jehovah's Witnesses-Barbara Anderson (page 6)

PSacramento

I would still like to see where this "thousands die every year" thing came from and what proof this is based on.

I can see thousands under RISK, but "thousands die", I really want to see the proof of that statement.

Hippie: I'm often a fan of your contrarian view, but in this case you're blinded by your membership in a liberal congregation with its own very different set of standards (compared to the dub norm). This experience keeps you from seeing the overall accuracy of Barbara's reporting.

I've been in several congregations over a 30-year JW sojourn and can attest that each congo has its own personality, and some of them are completely out of lockstep with the majority of their "brothers" and their leadership on this and a few other dub doctrines. Your paradigm is skewed just enough that you are drawing the wrong conclusion here.

flipper

OLD HIPPIE- I tend to agree with WILLYLOMAN- that your view of Barbara Anderson's findings is skewed and prejudiced by the fact that you are still a Jehovah's Witness. Of course you are going to have doubts about the research she has done - the WT society considers her to be apostate - which you may or may not have been told by elders you know - so it's going to taint your views in being objective towards the information.

JWOODS- In fact yes as you stated , " the more profile, the more scrutiny. " Yes, indeed. But if you are referring to Barbara- she is up to the challenge of scrutiny, as she has done exhaustive research in putting together information to inform people JW's and non-JW's about the dangers of child abuse in the witness organization as well as having been on the inside seeing many things at Bethel which most of us when we were witnesses wouldn't even get a sniff at , ever. The " information control" of the WT society makes sure that rank and file JW's are NOT INFORMED about ANYTHING negative going on in the inside realm. So I admire Barbara for her exhaustive efforts . It takes real courage and nerve to expose what she has exposed and inform people . More courage to do that- than to stay with the status quo hypocrisy the WT society pushes

Marvin Shilmer

I know suspicion. I have worked with suspicion. Suspicion is a close friend of mine. If TheOldHippie or anyone else reacts suspiciously to assertions made then I say, “More power to em!”

In her discourse Barbara interjected:

“Literally, thousands of Witnesses die each year when there is need for whole blood or some blood components that JWs don’t approve of.”

Assuming Barbara is speaking of Watchtower’s blood doctrine, it is not unrealistic to say thousands of Witnesses die each year as a result of it. This is what Barbara’s statement is to me: a statement of her personal belief that thousands of people among the Witnesses die each year because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.

Based on an average mortality rate of 1 percent, around 100,000 individuals in the Witness population die each year. Because this population is at a higher risk because of refusing various blood products that would prevent premature death in certain instances then it is realistic to think that at least 2,000 or more deaths annually among this patient population is a result of refusing these products. The mortality rate would only have to increase 1/100th to 1.01 percent to achieve the statistical number of 2,000 deaths.

The United States has approximately 1,500,000 individuals in the Witness community. Annually it would take only 6 Witness deaths in each state of the USA due to refusing blood to achieve an increase of 2/100th's of 1 percent mortality. (6!) It is not unrealistic to think this occurs assuming Witnesses are just as likely as everyone else to face need of transfusion that Watchtower forbids. Just like everyone else, Witnesses have babies, automobile accidents, accidents on the job, other blunt force traumas, cancers of all sorts, blood disorders, and the list goes on. And, guess what? Just like everyone else, Witnesses bleed. Lose enough blood and Witnesses will die just like anyone else. There is a point at which only a transfusion of some Watchtower forbidden blood product will prevent such a death. If refused, these patients die. End of story. They check out.

That Witnesses face extraordinary mortality as a result of Watchtower’s blood doctrine is established in vetted literature. Here is a link where this was presented a few years ago on this forum (hope it works): http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/135674/1/Deaths-Due-to-Watchtower-Blood-Doctrine-Statistic-on-one-patient-populat

This year another study from the Netherlands demonstrated that Witnesses presenting with maternity have a mortality rate 6 times higher than the national average purely because of refusing blood forbidden by Watchtower. (Ref. Van Wolfswinkel et al, Maternal mortality and serious maternal morbidity in Jehovah’s witnesses in the Netherlands, BJOG An International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 2009 p. 1103)

Though I understand, embrace and endorse suspicion, in this case I am not the least suspicious of Barbara’s believe on this point. It is likely that thousands die among those in the worldwide community of Witnesses because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.

Marvin Shilmer

Formatting on this forum has went to hell.

Georgiegirl

Ok - totally off topic - but now I know who to ask for help with my statistics homework!!! *blinks*

ETA: That I'm taking because now I'm in University WHICH. I. WASN'T. ALLOWED. TO. DO. AS. A. JW.

Just sayin'.

Marvin Shilmer

ERRATA:

"The mortality rate would only have to increase 1/100th to 1.01 percent to achieve the statistical number of 2,000 deaths."

Should read:

"The mortality rate would only have to increase 2/100th's to 1.02 percent to achieve the statistical number of 2,000 deaths."

Why it's Dangerous to Associate w/ Jehovah's Witnesses-Barbara Anderson

PSacramento

willyloman

flipper

Marvin Shilmer

Marvin Shilmer

Georgiegirl

Marvin Shilmer

flipper

willyloman

flipper

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