John 14:23 "and we will come to him and make our home with him."

by Chalam 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi,

    I have always though John 14 is a most powerful chapter, especially in debunking many WT myths. I was drawn to verse 23 as I read it just now

    John 14:23 (New International Version)

    23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

    So from this verse, the believer must love Jesus and obey His teaching. Then, two things will happen.

    Firstly the Father will love them.

    Secondly "we will come to him and make our home with him." What does that mean?

    To the uninitiated it might not be clear but this speaks of the Holy Spirit John 14:17

    Notice that is for "anyone" in the same way as here says "you and your children and for all who are far off" Acts 2:38-39

    Also notice, the we of the Holy Spirit refers to Jesus and the Father.

    "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

    Without wanting to start a 20 page Trinity debate, this verse alone is all one needs to know that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus and the Father and the three are one.

    Indeed, the Holy Spirit of in the same respect John 14:17 as is Jesus John 14:20, both in the very same chapter.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • wobble
    wobble

    As I said to my Super-Dub older sister yesterday :

    "You will have a hard job disproving the trinity using the New testament".

    She is in discussion with some Baptists, and I think they have the upper hand at present,though they will never get through to her,there are none so blind as those who do not want to see!

    Thanks for posting your thoghts,

    Love

    Wobble

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Notice also the subtle reversal of traditional, outward ("exoteric"), futuristic eschatology into inward ("esoteric"), present experience (or initiation) which is consistently worked out by the discourse:

    from

    In my Father's house there are many dwelling places (monai). If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again (palin erkhomai) and will take you to myself (paralèmpsomai humas pros emauton), so that where I am, there you may be also.

    to:

    He who loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come (eleusometha = erkhomai future) and make our dwelling place (monè) with him (par'autô).

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Just so awesome. Thanks for this. And I love Narkissos insight here.

    BTS

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    CHapter 14:

    John 14
    Jesus Comforts His Disciples

    1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God [ a ] ; trust also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going."

    Jesus the Way to the Father

    5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

    6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know [ b ] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

    8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

    9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

    Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

    15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be [ c ] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

    22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"

    23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    28 "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
    "Come now; let us leave.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    John 14 is a beautiful statement of love, hope and faith, spoken by Jesus to his apostles who, even after all they had seen and been through, were still not absolutly clear on what was happening, what will happen and why.

    Jesus dialoue with Philip is in of itself the answer to many Christian questions.

    The harmony of Jesus, God and the HS is beautifuuly written here by John, you truly get the notion that nothing is done without all 3 persons in union, that there is a beauitly unity of purpose, whether you believe in the Trinity or not, there is no denying that harmony between all 3 beings.

    The gospel of John is a beautiful work of love.

  • snowbird
    snowbird
    whether you believe in the Trinity or not, there is no denying that harmony between all 3 beings.
    The gospel of John is a beautiful work of love.

    Amen.

    John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. NIV

    When I read the above, really read it, I wept profusely. Thank you, Jesus!

    Sylvia

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    As I said to my Super-Dub older sister yesterday :

    "You will have a hard job disproving the trinity using the New testament"

    Agreed. That's why they wrote their own :(

    Notice also the subtle reversal of traditional, outward ("exoteric"), futuristic eschatology into inward ("esoteric"), present experience (or initiation) which is consistently worked out by the discourse

    Not forgetting that two different things are spoken of here, the dwelling of God within the believer Ephesians 2:22 1 Peter 2:5 and the physical dwelling that God has made for believers Isaiah 65 Revelation 21

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Sylvia,

    You aren't alone, there are times when I read John and 1John that the amount of love and tenderness being shown there is overwhelming.

    Its so full of promise, compassion and tenderness.

    John is one of the reason I don't read the OT very much, the OT God and my version of God that I see in John's writings have so little to do with each other that its scary !

    Jesus asks for so little in John, for love and compassion, the only obeying being to the commandments and to his teachings of love and acceptance.

    The Jesus of the GOJ is someone I would love to meet sit down and, with tears in my eyes, thank him for his love.

    He seems like one very cool dude :)

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