COC + Exdub wedding and the resultant ponderings

by bigwilly 17 Replies latest members private

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  OnTheWayOut

  We cannot fully know where the cult training and the real personality separate on some of these issues. Some people are really caring individuals that have their minds fully retrained by WT beliefs and practices. Some are able to compartmentalize the practices from their real feelings and ignore the shunning policy, others are not.

  Unless I know better, I assume the cult influence is the entire fault for a person. That doesn't excuse them entirely, but it helps me to feel for them. Since it doesn't excuse them entirely, if they act in a way that you cannot stand, you are free to distance yourself from it.

  But I feel so strongly for family loyalty that I would keep an open door policy to them as long as they haven't abused me or another in the family in some way. Once they want to put aside their rude or crude actions or behaviour, I would be there for them.

  Would I have regrets if I was on my deathbed or if the person in question died?

  That's a great question. One of my 4 living grandparents used to send me self-addressed stamped envelopes and told me that I needed to write her. I didn't really do it. She died when I was in my 20's. I felt pretty bad, that I had let her down. I didn't want it to happen with the other 3 grandparents, so I stayed involved in their lives. I knew each of them pretty well at their deaths. If a family member doesn't want me in their life, I am okay with that too, but leave the door open.
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  Frank75

  Our experience is similar in that me and my wife have family that follow the directive to shun to the letter....and then some.

  As Franz said in his book, there are good people and not so good in the organization. Those who can maintain civility and the "good neighbor" persona in these type of situations do so "in spite" of the direction and atmosphere in the org. They also do this to their own detriment in the group.

  The truth is that JW's are in a quagmire of mind control that exerts itself differently depending on a bunch of factors.

  What was the circumstance of the departure? Attacks on the org etc?

  What are the elders like as individuals and a group? Liberal easy going or suspicious and domineering? They have a great deal to do with how things get spun out and regurgitate it for the family and former acquaintances.

  Same with our parents/family? Are they the type to sacrifice their children/sibs for the esteem of others or have they long endured the disapproval of the majority and this is just one more thing? Many JW families have intense dynamics for gaining approval and are quite competitive in a jealous and unhealthy way.

  I am not at all surprised with the situation you encountered at the wedding. We have been vilified by friends and family and yet others act like nothing ever happened to us. Jim Penton said in a recent documentary that when he was caught up in his situation he was surprised at who abandoned him and even more surprised with those who reached out to him.

  When people inquire about our family, and they hear of the shunning we often hear back about how they know a JW who left and their family is fine. Although it is good to hear that some can manage it the inconsistency is indeed frustrating and I can hear it in your tone. I also know that such relationships are usually one way, and the former JW is treated as simply weak and although they know what we know, they are forced to bite their lip and remain silent to keep the peace. There is a cost in energy and emotion to maintain it.

  Chances are that if you opened up about what you know the hugs and greets would dry up.

  Frank75
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  bigwilly

  Good thoughts all around!

  As far as keeping the door open, this is the primary reason I have not DA'd myself. I haven't been DF'd (that I'm aware of) and DA'ing myself would definitely remove the gray areas I have been leaving open to their "conscience". Like Penny said though, sometimes you have to protect your emotional sanity. I believe that the relationship with my parents had become so toxic and damaging that I had to remove myself from it for my own good. Until I sense that some change (or willingness to change) is apparent, I intend to continue with the current arrangement of no contact. While PS's commentary regarding love and forgiveness is good, this particular relationship is beyond that point in my opinion. Ten years of emnotional abuse has used up all of my reserves. Should I decide to re-open lines of communication, I believe a letter will definitely be in order. For my own protection and well-being, certain terms and conditions will need to be clearly defined and put in place.
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  noni1974

  It's weird Big Willy. My parents are the only ones who speak to me. I have a friend who's mother has shunned her and her son for about 4 years and my friend is only faded not DA ed like me. I don't get it either. I say do what ever gives you peace of mind.

  I get along with my parents because a long time ago I forgave them for not being perfect and not being the parents I needed and wanted. I know they did the best the could with what they knew at the time. I don't let their judgements bother me. I am who I am and I don't hide that from them or anyone else.
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  Frank75

  I intend to continue with the current arrangement of no contact. While PS's commentary regarding love and forgiveness is good, this particular relationship is beyond that point in my opinion.

  There is a lot of opinion expressed on this board about what is important and who should be the big person etc. However one has to recognize a situation is what it is, and we have no control over it. One gay x-jw who did an interview expressed it in these terms about his parents, "they must build a bridge to me as I am who I am and the reason they are shunning me is so I will change, I on the other hand can accept them as they are"

  Until your folks can respect you for who you are there really is no advantage to subjecting yourself to the dynamic that exists in the typical JW family, at the moment it is all about abusing you and inflicting pain. Your situation is one of avoiding toxicity, plain and simple

  Frank75
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  Gopher

  Bigwilly,

  My sister and I have gone through the same emotional turmoil you're now experiencing. Our parents shun us and their grandchildren. I'm DF'd and my sister is DA'd -- of course, those are the labels the organization puts on us. We view ourselves as ordinary people, not as labelled people.

  We have gone around and around individually and together on how to cope with or maybe reach our hard-line shunning JW parents, who seemed so nice when we were growing up. It's a real mind-bender.

  The conclusion we've reached, individually and together, is that they've made their choice not to have us in their life -- and choose to blame us for the rift. I don't want to hear from them "you KNEW ahead of time what the consequences would be, you made your choice". I don't like it when people play blame the victim. And I don't even care about their loss of esteem personally or with their JW friends. What I care about is that every time we try to reach out to have a NON-religious relationship with them, they slap us down. Enough of that, life is too short. I've come to terms with my orphanhood.
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  bigwilly

  Well put Frank and Gopher. Gopher, I feel the same way you do, I'm just still coming to terms with my orphanhood ;)
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  Frank75

  Interesting interview with Drew Barrymore on 60 minutes. Drew sued her parents for emancipation at 15 and got it. She reconciled with her father before he died and has no contact with her mother. When asked she replied.

  "I just learned you cannot emotionally invest in people who are not attainable"

  This is unfortunately the situation in many cases of estrangement in the JW's. They are unattainable for the most part, with the cost of a relationship quite high for the non JW.

  Conversely the dub may also feel the effect of this truism, namely that without the prospect of us rejoining the "fold", we're just not worth the effort.

  Frank75