Why 2 witnesses to a sin? (page 2)

Mum

To quote Marilyn French: Life rewards you for pleasure and punishes you for pain. This poor woman was probably punished because she showed the scars of her beating. To a cult, image is everything (Rational Witness, as I recall, stated this first), and their image is tarnished when one of their own does such a deed. As long as no one knows, it's okay, particularly if it involves male abuse of a female.

I recently read a story at disfellowshipped.com about a 13-year-old child, female, who was disfellowshipped for being raped by her neighbor. Heaping more abuse upon the already abused is what Watchtowerism is all about.

And that's the truth.

Seize the day, and put the least possible trust in tomorrow. - Horace

I have learned to live each day as it comes and not to borrow trouble by dreading tomorrow. - Dorothy Dix

Yadirf

Kevin

I'm doing ok. I've spent the last few days playing on the internet and trading snide remarks on this db with yadirf, which is kind of good at taking my mind off things.

You just can't seem to get you're mind off me, can you Kevin. LOL.

Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

Yadirf

Kevin

To make a very long story short, she was disfellowshipped. The final reason the elders gave her was that she kept denying anything had happened.... Here is the part I don't understand. She was staying in the home of two "known homosexuals", so who in the world did they think she was sinning with?

She was "sinning", Kevin, by virtue of the fact that she accepted the hospitality of people who were "known homosexuals", a practice believed by JWs as being condemned in the Bible. By willingly having stayed/slept under the same roof of "known homosexuals" she indicated that she approved of what the Bible itself condemned. And furthermore, in denying that ANYTHING had happened she even argued that she had done NOTHING wrong, although she had in fact done something very wrong.

Yadirf

Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

Kaethra

Where on (jw) earth did you come up with the idea that staying overnight with known homosexuals is a disfellowshipping offense?

Kaethra

Hi Kevin,

I don't post here very much but I think that I know a little about your story. You recently lost your partner...John, yes? I'm sorry for your loss.

My question to you is...was your partner officially "disfellowshipped" or "disassociated" from the jws? Because, if so, then that would be the reason (gag) that the elders disfellowshipped your friend. Any jw that willingly associates with someone who is disfellowshipped or disassociated is setting themselves up for this punishment. It doesn't make much sense and it is all about power and control, as so many have already told you....

kevin221

Yadirf,

You said, "You just can't seem to get your mind off me, can you Kevin. LOL."

Don't flatter yourself big guy, the thought of you is almost enough to turn me straight. lol.

Ok so according to what you said then she was kicked out because she approved of something that the JW religion did not approve of. Is that what you meant, I just want to make sure that I am understanding you correctly. Then why was she told that she was being kicked out for ADULTERY. If she was actually being kicked out for approving of something the chruch detests then why were the elders involved not honest with her?

Also I see you didn't comment on the issue of why they did nothing about the abuse she was receiving from her husband. I would like to know what you think of that part of the situation.

Kaethra,
Thanks for your nice words. Jon was disassociated from the JW's when he was a teenager for smoking cigarettes. He was never baptised a JW but his parents were both JW's and that was how he was raised. A few years after he was kicked out he was advised that the JW's had changed the rules about shunning and disassociating people who had never been baptised. It never made much sense to me, but that's what happened. I hope that helps answer your question.

Take care,
Kevin

Kaethra

Ahhh! The plot sickens! See, you didn't state, (at least I don't think that you did), in your earlier posts that your friend was disfellowshipped ostensibly for adultery.

This is one of those areas in which the jw rules are so blatantly contradictory. (I'll explain the contradiction further momentarily.) You see, if two people are "witnesses" to the fact that two persons of the opposite sex have spent the night in the same dwelling, then that is all that is needed as "proof" that said persons have had sex....thus fornication or adultery, etc. Now, this is where it gets really devious on the jws' part...this woman friend of yours was obviously getting to be a thorn in their side, possibly because she was being abused...so the easy way out for them was to convict her of adultery. They could convict her of this because her parents knew that she was staying with two men. It did not matter that she was staying with two gay men. They had enough "evidence" to get her OUT! Sick, ain't it?

Now, this is what I mean about the rules being contradictory....your friend can be convicted of ADULTERY based on the mere fact that two people knew that she stayed overnight at your house. The people that knew she stayed at your house had no evidence that she had actually committed adultery there...and yet she was convicted of it. But the victims of wife beaters and child molesters have no such convenient hearsay to fall back on. Even if they have two witnesses to their bumps and bruises and emotional breakdowns, there is still insufficient evidence to convict.

The jw world IS the "Evil System" that they themselves kept warning us about.

Kaethra

I just realized that I forgot to add in my previous post that my aunt went through a very similar thing as your John...she was also disassociated by force, although she had never been baptized. My grandmother was/is a staunchly by-the-book-obey-the-elders-to-the-letter kind of woman and so she shunned her own daughter for YEARS because of this. (So did my mother and two other "faithful" aunts.) I was a very young child when my aunt was first deemed unworthy...but I remember it very well. Then, all of a sudden, the decree came from "on high" that they were allowed to speak to my non-baptized aunt again.

BLECCCHHHH!!!YECCCCHHHH!! I cannot tell you how sick this makes me.

seven006

I wonder if it a disfellowshipping offense to stay a few nights under the same roof with a hermaphrodite? I guess that would depend on whether the hermaphrodite who was born with both sex organs whore pants or a dress.

Maybe that would then fall under the disfellowshipping offense of dress code violation.

Not one single JW has ever been able to answer the hermaphrodite question. They do exist, more than most people realize.

It's quite simple Kevin. The brownie points you get for turning in someone is much more important than the persons life or happyness. The JW's understand as much about human compassion and psychology as they do about real love, that is zero. Every thing is for show, every thing is what they try and portray as holy. How it looks is a lot more important than how it really is.

What's your answer to this one Friday?

Dave

kevin221

Kaethra,
Seems as if your aunt did go thru the same experience as Jon and I'm sorry to hear that. What I still don't understand is how she could be accused and convicted of ADULTERY with a GAY MAN. Makes no sense to me, they must have just wanted to shut her up on the abuse charge.

Dave,
The hermaphrodite question is so very valid. Is a JW automatically kicked out if they are a hermaphrodite?? From other posts I've seen it would make sense to me that this would be a disfellowshipping offense. I mean come on, they would have a penis and a vagina in such close proximity that it would only stand to reason that a sin had occured. There must be something going on there. BTW I would give big money to see the 2 witnesses to that sin. LOL.

Yadirf,
I'm still waiting for your answer to my question about wife beating. Do you think the example above or the JW philosophy and treatment, or lack there of is the correct action. Please let me know your viewpoint, or are you too chicken shit to answer a legit question. And please, if you are just going to answer with a bunch of shit then don't bother wasting my time. I only want to know one thing, do you think it is right for elders to ignore wifebeating because there are not 2 witnesses to the crime. A simple yes or know will suffice.

Kevin

Why 2 witnesses to a sin?

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