A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

by garyneal 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  garyneal

  For those familiar with my postings already know, I am a Christian who is married to an active Jehovah's Witness (though not yet baptized). We discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "Bible Studies" with one of the elders. I've asked her about some of these things and I would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with Watchtower teachings.

  Can a police officer become a Jehovah's Witness?
  My wife and I passed a lot of state troopers on the way to the state fair in Richmond, VA and I told her that I had heard that police officers are not allowed to become witnesses. Her response, "Why not?" I said that I think it has something to do with them carrying a gun. She said, "If that is the case, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be hunters either since hunters carry guns." So police officers can be Jehovah's Witnesses. "Sure they can," she said.

  To the group I ask, is this true? Can police officers be Jehovah's Witnesses?

  My follow up, "Can a Jehovah's Witness join the military?" "No they cannot," she replied. "Why not? Do they not carry guns also just like the police force?" Her reply, "The police force serves to protect the citizens. All the military is good for is killing people and destroying things." I replied, "What if another country tries to attack or invade us, our police officers would not be equiped to handle their military." Her response, "Well if no country had a military, we would not have to worry about war or anything like that and we would not need our military." My response, "Well according to that reasoning, if everyone was peaceful and law abiding, we would not need a police force either."

  Conclusions: You can be a police officer or a hunter and be one of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you cannot be in the military. According to my wife that is. But I thought the Watchtower did not allow neither police officers nor people in the military to become Jehovah's Witnesses.

  My wife buys lottery tickets. I thought that too was not allowed by the society but I never say anything when she buys them.

  The multiple choice questionaire...

  One of the booths at the state fair was passing out questionaires asking people theological questions concerning salvation.

  Question 1: I believe I am: a) a good person, b) a religious person, c) a sinner, d) too bad to get to heaven.
  She picked A, the correct answer is C (we are all sinners for there is none righteous).

  Question 2: Jesus Christ loves and cares for: a) good people, b) only people who attend church, c) sinners, d) only innocent children.
  She picked B, the correct answer is C (Romans 5:8).

  Question 3: To get to heaven you must: a) follow the Golden Rule or obey the Ten Commandments, b) do good, be water baptized, attend church, c) ask Jesus into your heart, d) do nothing -- there is no hell.
  This question I will admit is tricky for a witness since most believe they are not going to Heaven and of course she did make this point. All Jehovah's Witnesses also believe in no literal hell (mentioned in choice d). For Christians, the correct answer is C (John 3:16). She ultimately said all of the above which certainly illustrates the need for a witness to keep working to obtain his or her salvation (a), get baptized and attend all meetings (b), believe in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus (c), and (leaving out the 'do nothing' part) deny the teaching of hell fire (d).

  Question 4: Jesus Christ is: a) one of several great teachers, b) someone to imitate as a way to heaven, c) the only way to heaven, d) a myth.
  I forgot her answer but since she did not believe she is going to heaven I don't think B and C were her choices. For Christians the correct answer is C (John 14:6).

  Question 5: If we do not believe in Jesus Christ we can: a) do good and hope for the best, b) believe in a mystical, higher power, c) be sure we will go to hell, d) believe in Muhammed, Buddha, or the Pope.
  I don't recall her answer but again since witnesses do not believe in hell, the correct answer of C would make no sense to them.

  The talk on idolatry...

  Apparently the Kingdom Hall had a talk today concerning idolatry. The usual line up of idols: the cross, money, and sports. Christians worship the cross, sports fanatics will attend games and even miss their meetings to attend them, and people go after the almighty dollar and not put Kingdom interest first.

  My main point of contention was the cross. So Christians worship the cross, I've never seen anyone call a cross God and do acts of worship to it. I've seen people in church come to an altar (which may or may not have a cross displayed above it) and pray on their hands and knees to God, but are they worshipping the altar? If so, then are children and adults who pray on their knees beside their beds at night worshipping their beds? She said, "Well you know people would carry crosses around as if it is their 'good luck' charm." Okay, I will agree that neither the cross or any other symbol has power to bring good fortunes (like the way one mail order company was selling the 'Our Lady of Medjugorje' charm or the 'Rub the Buddha for Money' charm). I also agree that God is not to be found in a building or an image. The Bible says that 'whereever two or more are gathered together', God is there with us.

  Then I asked her to not take offense to what I was about to say next but I've noted that whenever I disagree with a Watchtower teaching I am either trying to 'disprove the Bible' or 'disprove God.' I told her that I try to live my life in accords with the Bible and believe in God. However, at what point did the Watchtower get to be exalted to God? "The Watchtower follows the Bible as closely as they can and the Bible is inspired by God," she says, "Therefore if you disagree with the Watchtower, you disagree with God." "Is that so?", I asked, "Then how come the Watchtower changes its teachings so often. As we saw at the booth at the State Fair, God cannot change, so how come the Watchtower changes?" "It is all new light and them refining their teachings," she replied. I followed up with, "If the Watchtower teaches that one can get blood transfusion, then teach that blood transfusions are not allowed, then later says allows for blood fractions, it is all new light? How can new light contradict old light? If the Watchtower teaches that immunizations are not allowed, then teach that they are, how can this be? How can the Watchtower teach that organ transplants are not allowed (cannibalism) then later allow them? These are opposing teachings and they can't both be true, so either the Watchtower is teaching false teachings now or was teaching false teachings then, which one is it? If the Watchtower is God's sole channel on the Earth, how can their teachings change so much if God cannot change?"

  Silence...

  So tell me something, by equating disagreements with the Watchtower to being disagreements with God, does this not sound like some form of idolatry?

  She disagrees but of course at this point she thinks I am 'once again' misguided and trying to disprove the Bible and reject God.
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  White Dove

  Good post. Hunting with guns, knives, and bows is for food and never to be pointed at people. Cops can be JW's if they don't carry a gun for protection from other people. It's because there is a risk of shooting and killing someone and becoming blood guilty.

  Her baptism will be held up with those lottery tickets. There is actually a scripture about gambling and the lady of good fortune.

  JW's never say "I'm a sinner" as a reference to themselves. They don't say "sinner" unless it is a quote from the Bible. They will say we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. That word in the questionaire probably threw her a little because it sounded churchy.

  Jesus only cares for people who attend the Khall, according to JW's. So that is why she picked that answer.

  Yup, it's all based on works. Any good JW would have picked them all.

  When I was a JW, I wouldn't have known how to answer number 4, either.
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  TD

  Hi Gary,

  JW's can work in law enforcement even if it involves carrying a gun. However the JW in question won't be considered 'exemplary.' If the JW is male, they won't be allowed any 'privileges' (Responsibilities) in the congregation as long as they hold that occupation. I can provide references.

  Buying lottery tickets is frowned upon. Depending on the congregation and the elders in the congregation, it could result in a baptized JW getting 'called on the carpet' as the saying goes. (Called into a back room for counseling.)

  Your wife's responses to the multiple choice questions pretty much line up with what any JW might do or say and serve to illustrate the differences between the JW faith and mainstream Christianity.

  As the unbelieving husband of an active JW, I agree with your observation on idolatry. JW's practice idolatry towards the JW organization to an extraordinary degree.
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  diamondiiz

  I know of prison guards being JWs carrying a gun with the stipulation being that if needed they would not use it so same reasoning would probably fapply to being a cop but most likely it would be frawen upon. I never knew or heard of a jw cop so I don't know if there are any from experiance.

  Lottery is a no no as a superstition is that one is putting faith in a god of good luck.

  q1 - depending how you view each one. A sinner could be viewed as a sinner like all imperfect humans or a sinner as someone willingly going out of their way to commit badness.

  q2 - also misleading since Christ came and died for all but went preaching to sinners (ex. tax collectors and harlets). If he only came for actual sinners we would be better of doing evil now so we could be saved :)

  q3 - if I go and nuke couple countries while I ask Christ in my heart will I sit beside Christ in heaven? I guess I would be sinning which would also mean I'm in position to go to heaven since Christ came for sinners not good people as per q2 :)

  q4 - a-c depending how one reasons and some may say D :)

  q5 - go to hell? Really?? LOL yet I would like to see that one maybe a devil with a pitchfork

  Idolatry could mean various things. When someone makes a cross, has a picture of whatever on a wall or a statue of whatever (doesn't have to be Christian faith) and faces the object and prays doesn't that appear to be an act of worship in front of the image? How about if you have let's say a cross on your wall and when you pray you turn your back to the cross? Many wouldn't do that nor would they turn their back to picture of Mary "mother of God" on the wall to pray but would face the icon, that is called idolatry. Ps 115:3-8 Many may claim that they're not praying to the icon but it helps them visualizing God but wouldn't other religions also say the same thing about their elephant head goddess or their big beer belly Budah that those are only representation of the real diety not that they actually pray to the object in front of them?

  Now that last peragraph actually made sense about wts but again other religions also teach bunch of crap that stinks just as but but at least most religions don't force their people to follow them as blindly as wts. WTS leaders make themselves idols in many ways an represent themselves very much like pope who cannot be questioned even though they deny being inspired or perfect and yet cannot be questioned? What's up with that?

  When athiests hear religious people speak no wonder they roll their eyes and are glad they are no part of religion as most religious people repeat what they've learned from their religious leaders and that's what they follow but hopefully their religions are not so controlling that they can't reject at least some of the crap that is thaught by their religious leaders.
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  boyzone

  Very interesting to read your posts Gary and some astute observations on your part. Please keep on trying to help your wife see just how wrong the WT is before she's baptized, because after that things get alot more serious if she tries to leave.
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  wantstoleave

  For my entire growing up years I was told Jw's could not become policemen, so out the window went my career choice. Only in recent years, maybe even more recent than that, has it been brought out that yes they can, but for the reasons TD mentioned, cannot be given privileges in the KH. One of the reasons my brother faded was because he wanted to be a policeman but was told he couldn't be. He is now a policeman :)
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  OnTheWayOut

  The Watchtower magazine has examples of how police maintain order and safety. They don't want to totally demonize such a position of authority and safety, but as mentioned such a person would not hold responsibility in the congregation if he were to have to carry a gun. He would be someone whose job might cause him to have to take a life. JW's must not do such. In most areas of the U.S, the local congregation wouldn't even let this police officer get baptized. The rules are not so clearly written out as to appear discriminatory, so local elders have to make some of the decisions. Military members are nationalistic or patriotic as the WT views them. It is considered making friends with the world and depending on it to protect you.
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  Black Sheep

  Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go.

  Every argument on every subject ends up the same way with a cult member.

  They all have their version of "Therefore if you disagree with the Watchtower, you disagree with God." and a primary doctrine that supports it.

  You have to grasp them by that primary doctrine and strangle it.
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  Tuesday

  You should probably say something regarding the Watchtower being held in the same prominence as the cross in the Catholic church. Tell her if she thinks they're worshipping the cross she's sadly mistaken. It is not worshipped, merely a symbol. People are worshipping God and have a cross in the church. Now Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Halls have a Watchtower in the front of their hall. Also Diana of Artemis had a large Watchtower on her head and this was a false God.
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  leavingwt

  My wife buys lottery tickets.

  Gambling is considered greediness. You can be disfellowshipped for it.