by bobld 8 Replies latest jw friends
Rev Ch.1: 7 See,he comes amid the clouds!EVERY eye shall see him,even THOSE who pierced him.Does that mean J.C.'s 2nd coming is after the resurrection?Otherwise how could those who pierced him,see him.Do not give me the B.S. that those who pierced him refers to persecution of the anointed ones,that were identified in 1879,1914,1918,1919,1935 2000,2007,2008,2009.or "see" in the sense of"discern"as told by the WBTS.
Bob
Most Christians do not expect an earthly resurrection.
It is this sort of text that makes the Bible hard to understand for many. For me it makes the Bible lose value. I don't accept any of it's prophecy as relevant.
Jeff
Does that mean J.C.'s 2nd coming is after the resurrection?Otherwise how could those who pierced him,see him.
The text presumes that the parousia was shortly at hand; it was to occur before those who put Jesus to death themselves died. See v. 1 and 3 (and many other passages in Revelation) on the closeness of the end, and cf. also Matthew 10:23, 16:27-28, 24:34, Mark 14:62, Romans 13:11-12, 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:13-17, 5:23, Hebrews 10:25, 37, James 5:7-9, etc.
Believers have always had difficulty understanding these types of esoteric sayings. Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib and all of the hybrid Tribs in between. Pick your denomination to suit your own interpretation. It matters little- what would you do any differently with your life if you knew these sayings had some uber literal meaning and point in time, would you be nicer to everyone..
Jeff, the supprise to most people claiming to be Christian and attending some Protestant or Catholic Church is that they both officially teach that the earth is the permanent home for believers and Jesus. They are hoodwinked by their preachers and ministers in being told they will liver forever in heaven.
Jeff
Most Christians do not expect an earthly resurrection.
Some don't. But, actually I think many if not most do.
designs
Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib and all of the hybrid Tribs in between. Pick your denomination to suit your own interpretation.
Pre, Mid, Post, "trib" are only a small part of the whole. They are all part of modern Premillenial camps. They don't include Historic Premillenial, Amillenial, or postmillennial.
Eschatology in most Churches is a secondary issue and not seen as an essential of the faith.
Most Christians do not expect an earthly resurrection.
Upon exiting the JWs, I learned that many Christians believe that AFTER a period in Heaven, there physical body will be re-united with their soul, in what essentially is an "earthly resurrection".
It was not, as the JWs had led me to believe, that they think their future is as a spirit in Heaven for all eternity.
Does that mean J.C.'s 2nd coming is after the resurrection? Otherwise how could those who pierced him see him.
Bob,
That is pretty much the way I see this prophetic remark as well. It is not so much after, but historically one of many things that takes place in a Kingdom on earth restored at that time. The world will be filled by (immortal) humans taken from the Nations (sheep) and not everyone of them will have a successful outcome in this Kingdom. Death in the sense of destruction instead of the sleep from which humans will be re-created and Justified takes place then.
A visual description of conditions at that time was given like this: Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. The Kingdom gives mankind a second chance but it is also a time for mans final Judgement. Another way to understand such conditions in the Kingdom is like this: 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? Jews were messengers (angels) for this Kingdom demonstrating it during their lives so now it is used as a sacred name for them. Special people like the ones standing before our Lord were such angels when he said those prophetic words. Then again anyone with basic human decency that was selected (from the Nations) and raised by our Lord for any reason to be in this Kingdom sent a message during their lives that qualified them to be in it. Matt 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. After all our Lord did die for everyone.
Joseph
Hi,
LWT has it. That is what the bible says:-
A believer dies, their spirit goes to heaven Luke 23:43 2 Corinthians 5:6 2 Corinthians 5:8
A non believers dies, they do not go to heaven but are held in darkness awaiting judgement 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6 Matthew 8:12 Matthew 22:13 Matthew 25:30
OK there are two resurrections, one of the righteous and one of the un-righteous Acts 24:15 Daniel 12:2 Revelation 20:5-6
There are two places one can reside for eternity thereafter, in the New Jerusalem on earth with God or in the second death Revelation 20 Revelation 21
All the best,
Stephen
Revelation was written for the Lords day.
If that's supposed to be based on Revelation 1:10 it's plain wrong: "the Lord's day" (hè kuriakè hèmera) is not "the day of the Lord" ([hè] hèmera [tou] kuriou); it doesn't apply to the contents or "target" of the vision but to the circumstance where it occurs. See the context: "I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island (egenomèn en tè nesô)called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the spirit on the Lord's day (egenomèn en pneumati en tè kuriakè hèmera), and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, 'Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'" The adjectivekuriakos occurs only here and 1 Corinthians 11:20 in the NT, in a liturgical setting ("the Lord's supper"). Hè kuriakè hèmera (or hè kuriakè alone) was already a technical term of early Christianity for Sunday by the end of the 1st century as shown by its use in the Didakhè (which interestingly needs to point out the etymological meaning by adding tou kuriou, "the Lord's day of the Lord"). The "prophecies" in Revelation were short-range predictions, as the recurrent "soon", the references to the emperors' rules, and the order not to seal the book (contrary to Daniel) consistently attest.
