need help/backup about JW new light

by highdose 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • highdose
    highdose

    ok i'm trying to prove certain points to a JW i know who has questions. I need to know what the new light is about the "generation" and if possible where this new light was launched from eg watchtower, which article etc...

    Also it has been said here that there is a new thinking about 1935, that happened in 2008 i need to know for definate what this thinking is, and again where it was stated in the WBST litriture...

    please help this could mean alot to alot of trapped JW's... i can think of 4 already...

  • Heartbreaker
    Heartbreaker

    Wish I knew in order to help you...hopefully someone here will respond soon. Just felt I should reply, as 120 people have rea this already, and no response. I know that always makes me wonder when it's MY post. Good luck.

  • undercover
    undercover

    I was going to give you a link to JWFacts.com where they have good info on the generation teaching but the site is down or sumthin. Anyway here's a link to a cached copy of the generation page...hope it works for you...

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fQDEmOjV4_8J:www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/generation.php+http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/generation.php&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    Regarding the Generation doctrine, here's the "Cliff's Notes" version:

    1. For decades until 1995, the Witnesses taught that when Jesus said "this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things occur," he was talking about the generation of people who were alive and able to perceive the events of 1914. I refer to this as the "1914 generation."
    2. Then, in 1995 the Watchtower said that "this generation" spoken of by Jesus simply meant wicked people alive during the "last days." Importantly, it no longer meant people alive in 1914...it just meant wicked people alive during the last days.
    3. In the Feb. 15, 2008 edition, the Watchtower changed it again. Now "this generation" means anointed JWs alive during the last days. "This generation" still has nothing to do with 1914...but it's just a flip-flop from wicked people to anointed Christians.
    4. [There's some speculation about a further change, based on someone's notes from the recent Annual Meeting, but since nothing's in print yet, I wouldn't recommend bringing it up to your friend.]

    Regarding the 1935 change, I believe it was 2007. This was a Questions From Readers article in a 2007 (I'm thinking May) Watchtower. Before this article, the WTS taught that the heavenly calling ended in 1935. This meant that any post-1935 anointed JWs were "replacements" for pre-1935 anointed who became unfaithful.

    The 2007 article changed that. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was to the effect that it's possible that there are "new anointed" after 1935. This was not met with much fanfare in the JW world (as far as I can tell), because it's an arcane theological point and most JWs don't really care about such things. But it's pretty interesting to "us" because it shows that the WTS locked the gates of heaven from 1935 to 2007, but then opened them again. Pretty wild when you think about it!

  • yknot
    yknot

    Here is the disassembly of 1935 via May 1, 2007 QFR

    w07 5/1 pp.30-31 Questions From Readers

    When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?

    The Bible does not reveal a precise answer to that question. We do know that the anointing of Jesus’ disciples with a view to their heavenly inheritance began in 33 C.E. (Acts 2:1-4) We also know that after the death of the apostles, genuine anointed Christian “wheat” came to “grow together” with counterfeit Christians, “weeds.” (Matthew 13:24-30) Then, starting in the late 1800’s, anointed Christians were again prominently active. In 1919 “the harvest of the earth,” including the gathering of the final ones of the anointed, began to be reaped.—Revelation 14:15, 16.

    From the late 1800’s until 1931, the main thrust of the preaching work was the gathering of the remaining members of the body of Christ. In 1931 the Bible Students took the Bible-based name Jehovah’s Witnesses, and in the November 15, 1933, issue of TheWatchtower, the thought was expressed that this unique name was the “denarius” referred to in Jesus’ parable recorded at Matthew 20:1-16. The 12 hours mentioned in the parable were thought to correspond to the 12 years from 1919 to 1931. For many years after that, it was believed that the call to the heavenly Kingdom had ended in 1931 and that those called to be joint heirs with Christ in 1930 and 1931 were “the last” called. (Matthew 20:6-8) However, in 1966 an adjusted understanding of that parable was presented, and it became clear that it had nothing to do with the end of the calling of the anointed.

    In 1935 the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of “other sheep,” Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in “the last days” and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.

    Without a doubt, if one of the anointed unrepentantly falls away, Jehovah does call another individual to take his place. (Romans 11:17-22) However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.

    How should a person be viewed who has determined in his heart that he is now anointed and begins to partake of the emblems at the Memorial? He should not be judged. The matter is between him and Jehovah. (Romans 14:12) However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special “insights,” beyond what even some experienced members of the great crowd may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the other sheep have; nor do they expect special treatment or claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation. They humbly remember that some anointed men in the first century did not qualify to serve as elders or ministerial servants. (1 Timothy 3:1-10, 12, 13; Titus 1:5-9; James 3:1) Some anointed Christians were even spiritually weak. (1 Thessalonians 5:14) And sisters, although anointed, did not teach in the congregation.—1 Timothy 2:11, 12.

    Hence, anointed Christians along with their other sheep companions strive to stay spiritually strong, cultivating the fruitage of the spirit and working for the peace of the congregation. All Christians, whether anointed or of the other sheep, work hard at preaching the good news and making disciples under the direction of the Governing Body. Anointed Christians are content to do this for as long as it is God’s will that they remain on earth as Jehovah’s servants.

  • yknot
    yknot

    w08 2/15 pp.23-24 Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You?

    The Generation Seeing the Sign

    Previously, this journal has explained that in the first century, “this generation” mentioned at Matthew 24:34 meant “the contemporaneous generation of unbelieving Jews.” That explanation seemed reasonable because all other recorded uses that Jesus made of the term “generation” had a negative connotation, and in most cases, Jesus used a negative adjective, such as “wicked,” to describe the generation. (Matt. 12:39; 17:17; Mark 8:38) Thus, it was felt that in the modern-day fulfillment, Jesus was referring to the wicked “generation” of unbelievers who would see both the features that would characterize “the conclusion of the system of things” (syn·te′lei·a) and the system’s end (te′los).

    11

    It is true that when Jesus used the word “generation” negatively, he was speaking to or about the wicked people of his day. But was that necessarily true of his statement recorded at Matthew 24:34? Recall that four of Jesus’ disciples had approached him “privately.” (Matt. 24:3) Since Jesus did not use negative qualifiers when speaking to them about “this generation,” the apostles would no doubt have understood that they and their fellow disciples were to be part of the “generation” that would not pass away “until all these things [would] occur.”

    12

    On what basis may we draw that conclusion? By carefully considering the context. As recorded at Matthew 24:32, 33, Jesus said: “Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see allthesethings, know that he is near at the doors.” (Compare Mark 13:28-30; Luke 21:30-32.) Then, at Matthew 24:34, we read: “Truly I say to you that thisgeneration will by no means pass away until allthesethings occur.”

    13

    Jesus said that it was his disciples, soon to be anointed with holy spirit, who should be able to draw certain conclusions when they saw “all these things” occur. So Jesus must have been referring to his disciples when he made the statement: “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.”

    14

    Unlike unbelievers, Jesus’ disciples would not only see the sign but also understand its significance. They would “learn” from the features of that sign and “know” their true meaning. They would fully appreciate that “he is near at the doors.” While it is true that both unbelieving Jews and faithful anointed Christians saw a limited fulfillment of Jesus’ words in the first century, only his anointed followers back then could learn from these events—could understand the true meaning of what they saw.

    15

    Those without spiritual understanding today have felt that there has been no “striking observableness” with regard to the sign of Jesus’ presence. They reason that everything is continuing on as it did in the past. (2 Pet. 3:4) On the other hand, Christ’s faithful anointed brothers, the modern-day John class, have recognized this sign as if it were a flash of lightning and have understood its true meaning. As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day “generation” of contemporaries that will not pass away “until all these things occur.” This suggests that some who are Christ’s anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.

    w08 2/15 p.25 Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You?

    Box on page 25 Can We Calculate the Length of “This Generation”?

    The word “generation” usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event. For example, Exodus 1:6 tells us: “Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers and allthatgeneration.” Joseph and his brothers varied in age, but they shared a common experience during the same time period. Included in “that generation” were some of Joseph’s brothers who were born before him. Some of these outlived Joseph. (Gen. 50:24) Others of “that generation,” such as Benjamin, were born after Joseph was born and may have lived on after he died.

    So when the term “generation” is used with reference to people living at a particular time, the exact length of that time cannot be stated except that it does have an end and would not be excessively long. Therefore, by using the term “this generation,” as recorded at Matthew 24:34, Jesus did not give his disciples a formula to enable them to determine when “the last days” would end. Rather, Jesus went on to emphasize that they would not know “that day and hour.”—2 Tim. 3:1; Matt. 24:36.

  • AwSnap
    AwSnap

    I've been told that the witnesses have NEVER referred to it as "old light" or "new light", but rather refer to it as "the light getting brighter" only. Is this true?

  • undercover
    undercover
    I've been told that the witnesses have NEVER referred to it as "old light" or "new light", but rather refer to it as "the light getting brighter" only.

    Officially the term is "light getting brighter" which is paraphrased from a scripture (which I can't remember anymore). In talks you'll hear speakers saying "the light getting brighter" and similar.

    But amongst the rank and file during private conversations the term "new light" is used quite extensively. Any time there's new info or a change in doctrine, you'll hear all the dubs whispering to each other, "did you get the new WT? Did you see the 'new light'?" Occasionally you might even hear a local speaker use the term, though it's not in the manuscript...but because it's so ingrained in JWspeak, they slip and use it on stage.

    I don't think "old light" is really used that much and never from the stage. If someone tries to present old knowledge..."old light", most JWs will just say, "oh no...we have 'new light' on that"...while never addressing the obvious problem of the previous info being "old".

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    To piggy-back on what Undercover said, the "new light" / "old light" terminology is probably not something you'll see in print, esp. in the last couple decades or so. Sort of like the old term "present truth" which has died a merciful death.

    Terms like this are part of the unofficial JW vocabulary. Another classic example is calling the JW religion "the Truth." I don't recall seeing it in print much (if at all), but I guarantee you that if you say "the Truth," every single JW in the room will know exactly what you're talking about. And if you're a JW and refer to your faith in other terms (such as "the JW religion," the "JW faith," etc.), you'll get funny looks from your fellow JWs.

    Oh, and the "light gets brighter" scripture is Proverbs 4:18. If you read the whole chapter, you will soon realize what a ridiculous interpretation the WTS has! That passage has nothing to do with changing doctrine, rather it's a very general illustration about how the life of a righteous person is better than that of an unrighteous person. Nothing more; nothing less.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Noo-light and old light are only used in private conversations.

    Old light is mostly used in the context of dismissing an uppity troublemaker who is bringing up past flip-flops......(ex: well that is 'old-light', see the light keeps getting brighter, proof of Jehovah's blessings and the end being nigh)

    Old light being used to describe or discuss past WTS oopsies are only on forums like this and very trusted private conversations that would be denied in front of a JC.

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