great topic, I will come back later with my thoughts
As A JW Did You Care About Old JW History, Old Light & Flip Flops?
by minimus 35 Replies latest jw friends
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minimus
I'm waiting.......
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Lapuce
It used to bug me alot as since it was an organization from god, how come god always changes its mind since jehovah is perfect, so to be perfect why change things????
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AllTimeJeff
I bought the interpretation before the story.
The interpretation is "the light gets brighter".
Once you buy that, it really wouldn't have mattered what the history was....
For the record, my mom read Faith On the March to me when I was a kid. I was fascinated by the history. Esp the made up fictional parts.
As an adult, I cared. As an immature borgbot, it didn't matter.
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diamondiiz
While a dub I didn't really think much about "new light" and in fact always looked forward to what new "insight" these assholes would share with the rest of us :(
I didn't know about the history which was my biggest fault, and when I got suckered in I was a teen with spiritual interest but didn't know any better so I accepted the wts shit as it appeared to make sense. As little as was ever brought out about wts history dates were alway made into a non issue as people always talked about them as "brothers thought" which it somehow implied that they thought some things but I never clued in that they taught the crap for decades as truth. Never knew about Beth Sarim as proclaimers had practically nothing on it, didn't know about organ transplants, didn't know 1975 was as big as it was. Basically I failed on the entire wts history while a dub. Flip flops? Never heard of them, only new light :)
I guess history is the single biggest item that can make people realize that wts is not God guided and it's nothing more than money grabbing religion that screws with peoples lives.
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Wasanelder Once
I was a history junkie. I wanted to see how the faithful slave had awoken and the separating of the wheat and the tares was taking place in the early 20'th century. Then I found out there were pyramids, personality infighting and general cultish activities. I knew something was seriously wrong. Then I read that Rutherford said he'd made an ass out of himself regarding 1925 and I knew then that the whole thing was from him and not God. Why would God get it wrong? If it was God holy spirit leading them in the way of truth, why would Rutherford take any credit? Positive or negative? Soon it was time to jump ship. W.Once
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Farkel
:As time went on, it did start effecting me.
What kind of "effects" did it produce?
Farkel, Special Effects CLASS
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tryingtoexit
When I was in, I didnt really care about it. The light has gotten brighter thing was drilled into my head as a kid so the older I got I never questioned it. Only thing I know all the way through high school as far as the past was there was LOT'S of old books, many with covers that covered every color known to man, they were thick books, some average, and that there use to be green bibles and purple song books. Other then that I never really investigated because I thought this was "the truth". I think it was 2003 when they shortened the # 2 talks to just reading with no intro or conclusion. I remember a close friend of the family we called "Pops" because of his age, said right before he died that "I wish they wouldve started this NEW arrangement when I was healthy and giving talks". Next in 2004, the Pontiac Silverdome in Michigan hosted the final District Convention, it's the only place I've ever been for a D.C. and was hosted there since the early 70's. Word spread amongst EVERYBODY, "well Jehovah made the light brighter, and we couldnt stay there anymore, because the older friends couldnt hear with all those people walking around and making noise right by the elderly section. 30,000 people was just too much, and there was no air circulation, so people were always passing out, the brothers couldnt get nothing out of the program if they had assignments so it's a good thing Jehovah got us out of there". At first......I accepted that, cause on the surface it makes sense, there's more bad than good at that site of course, but then I meditated for awhile, and I thought "This doesnt make any sense! How do yall know Jehovah said it's time for us to go?! Where's the proof???"
So I told my father what the flock was saying since he's an elder, and he just says "That's not true, when the Detroit Lions moved into their new facility we knew our days were numered at the Silverdome, each year we didnt know if we were still going to be there. Finally in 2004, our contract had run out, and the city had other plans for the Silverdome, THAT'S why we had to leave, not because Jehovah God saw the benefits of us leaving"
I started to wonder why would all the other friends who know nothing about the in's and out's of what goes on with the D.C. sites make such outlandish claims. I would tell certain people that was saying that stuff, and they would say "Well, That's a lie, your father doesnt know what he's talking about". Like they knew more than my dad, then in 2005, we changed to the Seagate site in Toledo, OH where only 6,000 max could be held in there......alot different from the 30,000 we were used too. Once again "the friends" start saying the usual, "Jehovah has gave us new light and answered our needs, we have a smaller facility, air condition, and a hotel connected right to the site!"
Then from 2006-2009 we've saw the change in no more home book study arrangements, Sunday talk shortened to 30 mins, 30 sec. or less comments for the bible reading, etc.
Most of the people took as God hurrying up the end of the system so that's why all these changes were being made, but all these changes started to make me question like other people in this thread if God is perfect, why would all these things be changing? How does a talk becoming only bible reading have anything to do with the end of this wicked world???
And that's what led me to start researching our "truth" and make all types of discoveries. I got so irritated with everybody saying the same thing "the light has gotten so much brighter than now we......."
I'm always like "HOW DO YOU KNOW?!"
I'm actually grateful I heard and saw all those things because it helped me search for the real truth which I probably would not have done, so big shout out and thank you to all the JW idiots who set me free, word up, peace.
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teel
The doctrine changing is still not a big issue for me per se. I would be much more bothered if they realized that one of their teachings was against the Bible yet they continued teaching it.
What is an issue though is that "current light" is pushed on people as the ultimate Truth™ although it's clear that it will change, and trying to cover up past mistakes (they must feel that the long history of mistakes is sort of against the "spirit directed" theory). I'd like them to simply drop the crap about "spirit directed", come forward and say: "Listen brothers, we're simple Bible students, like any of you. These are the things we think the Bible says, if you think different well, it's not our place to judge your convictions."
The Bible is 100% clear on many things (say don't steal, don't kill), those could be the basis of disfellowshipment (but not shunning!), the rest is up to anyone's conscience, read the GB's arguments and decide for yourself if it rings true. Then when you stand before God you could be judged by your own conscience, not by following mindlessly some blind leaders.
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trebor
The doctrine changing is still not a big issue for me per se. I would be much more bothered if they realized that one of their teachings was against the Bible yet they continued teaching it.
How about if the 'changing doctrine' including going back to an old/previous position, and calling it "new light"?
Organ Transplants...
-1961 = Conscience choice.
[Watchtower August 1, 1961 'Question from Readers']
-1967 = Cannibalistic.
[Watchtower November 15, 1967 ‘Questions from Readers’]
-1980 = Conscience choice.
[Watchtower March 15, 1980, page 31]So, the light in 1967 becomes brighter than it was in 1961 and Jehovah's Witnesses are taught Organ Transplants are now cannibalistic. However, 13 years later the light becomes brighter again and in 1980, Jehovah's Witnesses are taught Organ Transplants are no longer cannibalistic but a conscience choice, which is actually returning back to their previous stance in 1961.
Resurrection of the Men of Sodom...
-1879 = Yes.
[Watchtower July 1879, page 8]
-1952 = No.
[Watchtower June 1, 1952, page 338]
-1965 = Yes.
[Watchtower August 1, 1965, page 479]
-1982 = Yes.
[Live Forever Paradise Earth 1982 edition, page 179]
-1988 = No.
[Watchtower June 1, 1988 page 31]
-1988 = Yes.
[Insight on the Scriptures Volume 2, page 985]
-1989 = No.
[Our Kingdom Ministry, December 1989, page 7]
-1989 = No.
[Live Forever Paradise Earth 1989 edition, page 179]
The number of times the Watchtower Society's teaching changes concerning the resurrection of the Men of Sodom is staggering. The above does not read as divine direction, "brighter light" coming from Jehovah, just an organization haphazardly guessing and arbitrarily deciding what to teach.
Superior Authorities (Romans 13:1)...
-1886 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
[Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1886 edition) page 250]
-1916 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
[Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1916 edition) page 266]
-1929 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
[Watchtower June 1 and June 15, 1929]
-1950 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
[This Means Everlasting Life (1950) page 197]
-1962 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
[Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! (1962) page 548]
-1990 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
[Watchtower November 1, 1990, page 11]
So the "Superior Authorities" were Worldly Governments or Authorities from 1886-1929. From 1929-1962 new light flashed forth making the "Superior Authorities" Jehovah and Jesus. Then finally more new light flashing forth brought the teachings of “Super Authorities” to Jehovah's Witnesses from 1962 onward back to the original teaching of 1886.
This Generation (Mathew 24:34)...
-1927 = The Anointed
[Watchtower February 15, 1927 page 62]
-1942 = Anyone alive to see 1914
[Watchtower July 1, 1942 page 204]
-1995 = Wicked People alive today
[Watchtower November 1, 1995 page 19]
-2008 = The Anointed
[Watchtower February 15, 2008 page 24]
From an analysis of the Watchtower Society’s teaching concerning "This Generation" as recorded in Matthew, it was first ‘correct’ in 1927. But brighter light caused it to become an incorrect teaching of a couple of different things over the course of 81 years, only to return back to the original ‘correct’ 1927 teaching.The above "changing doctrine" are a HUGE part of what made me leave the Watchtower Society controlled Jehovah's Witneeses.
-Trebor