Let the children decide. (page 6)

yknot

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I would hate to see some of these comments (reflecting the norm in Dubbieworld) discourage A/E & hubby from continuing on their parental path!

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restrangled

Hi Angel Eyes...

I have been reading your posts and replies over the last 2 months. Some I have found suspect.

This one, I find the most suspect. As a JW parent, there is no way you are not going to indoctrinate at a young age, your children into the mindset that holidays are pagan and a way to set themselves apart from the "world"! Then let them decide they do or do not want to participate.

I don't buy for a minute that you are legit JW parents, allowing them the freedom to decide what they want to do. I Call BullSHIXT!!!!!

I think OUTLAW had your number a while ago.

r.

betterdaze

Do you feel thats right or wrong?

Inconsistent parenting is wrong, period.

Raising children in the Watchtower cult, yet allowing them to go ahead and celebrate pagan, worldly holidays — ESPECIALLY demonic Halloween — sets them up for major guilt trips before Jehovah.

Some might even call it emotional child abuse.

"This world is passing away and so is it's desire." And what about "Quit touching the unclean thing?" Those scriptures were inculcated into us as mere babes! We were instructed to "write them on our heart."

How can you drag your children back to the Kingdom Hall after allowing them to participate in THE MOST Satanic of holidays?

From where I stand, it's not just the height of hypocrisy, but utter cruelty to mess with their little heads and hearts like that.

~Sue

snowbird

If your answer is No..

How is it possible..For you to believe what "Angel Eyes" says?..

I don't believe she could do those things and remain in good standing.

Unless - and here's a thought! - the entire congregation of which she's a part is on the verge of apostasy.

Wouldn't that be something?

Sylvia

mrsjones5

Maybe AE isn't thinking clearly...ya think?

AllTimeJeff

anyway, hubby and i have always thought that how can a child decide if they dont know what other things are, ie birthday partys, halloween etc. SO, our children are allowed to choose if to go places etc. Last year our little boy said he didnt want to go to a halloween party, this year he said he might. Do you feel thats right or wrong? He know's why we dont choose to do them but he also know's Jehovah wants him to serve him when his older because HE wants to, not HAS too.

What?

i take it you havent ever been a jw then. Thats clearly obvious, because you would understand how important it is to raise children knowing bible principles AND having freedom of choice rather than being raised without choice, as some on here have. That's why they understand why we have raised our children this way.

Well, I was a JW all my life, elder for 6 years, Gilead graduate of class 119 in September of 2005 (read up on it in the 1/1/2006 Watchtower), so I hope you will permit me the courtesy of the fact that I know what I am talking about.

AE, I admire the feelings of this post. We should allow our children a measure of autonomy. In this however, your views are at odds with Jehovah's Witnesses.

I have no wish to dispute your personal actions or beliefs. However, you do seem to be misrepresenting Jehovah's Witnesses, making them appear far more tolerant then what they are. In doing this, you are at the very least, being very inaccurate. (I won't charecterize your ignorance of Jehovah's Witnesses beyond that)

I have in front of me the "Flock" book. (or the elders handbook. ks91 as elders refer to it) Here is the definition of APOSTASY for elders to consider

"Apostasy is a standing away from, afalling away, defectioin, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities."(ks pg 94 par 6)

"Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates."(ks pg 94 par 9)

"Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship."(ks pg 95 par 2)

On page 206 of the book "Organized To Do Jehovah's Will", baptism question #37 at the top of the page asks "What birthday celebrations are mentioned in the Bible? How does this affect your view of birthday celebrations?" Followed by references to Matt 14:6-11 (Herods Birthday) Gen 40:20-22 (Pharohs birthday) and Eccl 7:1,8 (...day of death better then the day of ones birth reference. )

Under no circumstances would an elder permit a baptism unless they agreed that they wouldn't celebrate birthdays nor allow their children to. On page 207 of the Organized book, question 4 is "Who is primarily responsible before God for the training and disciplining of children?" (Father and Mother) followed by question 5 "What responsibility do children have in the family arrangement?" (Be obedient to their parents, who must inculcate Jehovah's WTBTS law onto their children.)

Let me sum this up for you AE. You consistently maintain that ALL Jehovah's Witnessese act and believe a certain way, but that isn't the case. Your personal beliefs aside, and allowing that you do have the freedom to act personally however you and your hubby wish, in this particular thread, you bring up holidays and birthdays and your belief that JW's can allow their children to participate under the guise of letting your children make up their own minds.

I can tell you that any elder I have ever met would immedietely arrange (several) shepherding calls on you, and if you maintain your right to persist, this is an EASY judicial case, where disfellowshipping would occur. Any baptized JW parent (where father and mother are baptized) would be subject to judicial action were this the case. All elders are to treat any baptized Jehovah's Witness who permits the celebration of holidays in their home, or permits their children to celebrate birthdays (regardless of whether its their own or a worldly friend) as at the very least, very weak, and a potential target for disfellowshipping.

There are shades of gray, if their is an unbelieving mate who insists their kids celebrate the holidays. Then the (wife) must allow this. But if you both are baptized, that is a distinct code red, judicial violation.

You are right that children should have the right to make up their own mind, but often, they do not. And it is my opinion that, for whatever reason you have, you are painting a very deliberate picture of Jehovah's Witnesses as moderate and tolerating. I assure you that the elders are trained by the Society to make sure that NEVER happens.

yknot

Unless - and here's a thought! - the entire congregation of which she's a part is on the verge of apostasy. Wouldn't that be something?

(in my best Austin Powers voice) Oh Sylvia, do behave you naughty kitten!

.......................................................................................................................................................................

Maybe A/E is just being herself.

mrsjones5

"All elders are to treat any baptized Jehovah's Witness who permits the celebration of holidays in their home, or permits their children to celebrate birthdays (regardless of whether its their own or a worldly friend) as at the very least, very weak, and a potential target for disfellowshipping."

Yep, when my parents allowed us to do certain things out of the norm for jws we were made to understand that what we had done was not to be spoken of in front of any jws we knew. I had "spiritually weak" parents and I thank God for that.

snowbird

You called, YKnot?

Sylvia

scotinsw

AE - I do not for one second think that any elder would approve of your liberal viewpoint. Whilst it is admirable I just can't see any elder condoning it.

From what ATJ has just quoted from the elders book you could very well get df'd for this.

Why don't you tell the elder that knows you come on here and ask his advice on the matter.

Let the children decide.

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