And may you all have peace!
Great Crowd in heaven? Prove it. They are part of those who rule as kings and priests with Christ. Revelation 5:9, 10
The "great crowd" is in heaven because it represents the Christians killed in the "great tribulation.” While a great deal of people do die in the great tributional, the great crowd are not among them. They come OUT of the great tribulation. Indeed, the days are cut short so that they are not harmed.
In the scenario of ch. 13, every single person who remains faithful to Jesus is put to death. Although that appears to be the scenario, this explanation is inaccurate as some of those who belong to Christ do not see death at all. The “killing” here (vs. 15) is spiritual, not physical… albeit literal and not symbolic. The “killing” in Chapter 19, however, is also spiritual and not physical, as the “long sword” that protrudes from my Lord’s mouth… is the truth. It is the truth that “kills” these… by exposing them for what they are. (I will leave explanation of the “evening meal” for another time as it is getting rather late)
The WT notion of survivors of the "great tribulation" who pass through Armageddon without dying is alien to the original scheme ofRevelation. Both of these are inaccurate, the WTBTS notion and what is assumed about the original scheme of the Revelation. Armageddon occurs at least 1,000 years AFTER the great tribulation. The great tribulation occurs before my Lord’s return. When my Lord returns, Satan is abyssed for 1,000 years. At the end of that time, he is let loose to mislead Gog and Magog. THAT is when the War of the Great Day of God Almighty occurs, for it is Gog and Magog who are “gathered to… HarMaggedon.”
AnnOMaly asked: if the 144,000 were already in heaven, why were the angels holding back the winds that would harm earthly things. The Revelation is not in chronological order, not by a stretch. John was not given ALL of it while on Patmos. Some of it he received earlier. Paul spoke of this when he mentioned that he knew a man who had gone to the "third" heaven and saw things unmentionable. This was John, so that when he (John) was told to write, he was told to write the things he HAD seen (included that which Paul mentioned)... WAS seeing (at that particular time)... and WOULD see. So, although it is believed that John saw everything within a fairly short span of time and then wrote it down, that was actually not the case. He BEGAN seeing what he did almost 60 years before writing it down.
And each time he saw what he did... whether when on Patmos or many years before and leading UP to this time, he was "taken" in the SPIRIT. That is what the TRUE meaning of the word "inspired" means: in the spirit. Thus, he wrote that he "came to be IN spirit." As was Ezekiel, Daniel, and others, including me, your servant. HOW the visions were presented to John was...well, the only way to describe it is in "cubes." WHEN he saw things, he saw MANY things at one time, and so wrote "AND I saw... AND I saw." Many take this to mean that he saw certain things after seeing other things. That is not accurate: he saw MANY things... all at one time… as if looking at all six sides of a transparent cube all at once. However, because writing in the physical world is LINEAR, he could only write what he saw in that manner. So, in very many instances he didn’t see things one after another but all at the same time… tried to describe what he saw as best he could in writing.
The white robes are also explicitly linked to martyrdom (6:11, 7:15, cf. 12:11), a concept possibly influenced by Daniel 11:35, 12:10. And white robes are the characteristic garb of heavenly beings (cf. Daniel 7:9, 1 Enoch 14:20, 2 Maccabees 11:8, Testament of Levi 8:2, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Revelation 4:4, 19:14, Hermas, Vision 4.2.1). The white robes are bodies. Spirit bodies. Currently, we have physical (earthly) bodies that have sin and death in them. These are the OUTER garment… or “soiled garments” or “befouled robes.” The “cup” or “vessel” within which our TRUE person… the SPIRIT… resides. These bodies “cover” the “nakedness” of our spirits, the “man” we are… on the INSIDE. They are “soiled/befouled” because they have corruption (sin and death) IN them. When those belonging to Christ are resurrected/changed, however, they are given SPIRIT bodies… bodies that are INCORRUPT… that do NOT have sin and death in them. “WHITE robes.” They are the bodies that angels possess and because they are spiritual and not physical, they are not “bound” as our physical bodies are. They are FREE and thus not limited by the NEED to sleep, past waste, eat or drink physical flesh/vegetation or drink physical water. They do not succumb to fatigue, uncontrollable impulses or urges, hunger and thirst, sickness… or death. Also, t hey are not necessarily linked to martyrdom… but to the spirit realm. That some who are given such RECEIVE them is just manifestation of the REWARD for their martyrdom. Others receive them for "doing good" (or not doing bad) to Christ's brothers.
Yes, the 144,000 are located on earth in ch. 7, as they receive protective sealing from the plagues that God then brings upon the earth. These do not receive a “protective” sealing. They receive a GUARANTEE so that the promise to Abraham fulfilled and cannot be undone.
Anciently, the holy ones taken into temple service were all "virgins" in the sense that they were temporarily celibate. In a metaphorical sense, the 144,000 are virgins in the sense that they will be free from the influences of the world. The 144,000 are “virgins” because, once one is washed in the blood of the Lamb, one becomes completely CLEAN… and thus, a virgin. As if one had never ever been “touched”… by sin. In this manner, they can become brides of Christ. The 144,000 are virgins because they did not have relations with “women.” This is NOT fleshly relations with literal women: it is “adulterous” relations with anyone other than their “husbandly owner,” Christ. This means, ONCE CLEANSED… they did not sully themselves with the DAUGHTERS (women) of the Great Harlot, Babylon the Great.
While the Antichrist will have the mark of the Beast on their foreheads, the 144,000 will have the mark of the Father in their foreheads. While others receive the mark of the Beast, those of the 144,000 actually receive more than just a mark: these receive a SEAL… which seal includes a NAME… made up of the name of God, Christ, the temple, and such one’s “new” name. One name… that describes all of these. An example is the name of my Lord, “JahEshua” which means “JAH Saves; Salvation of JAH.” Another example is “EliJah” which means “My God (El i) is JAH,” El-i-Jah.
All resurrections will be as Christ's resurrection. That means a physical resurrection of flesh and bone (not blood). Only the second (general) resurrection will be in this manner. The FIRST resurrection is one to spirit bodies. It is sown a physical body… it is raised up a spirit body.
We know from scripture that through Christ, all men, good and evil, will be resurrected. Not as spirits, but as physical beings. The TRUTH is that some WILL be resurrected as spirits (those of the first resurrection, over which the second death has no authority). It is those in the second resurrection who are resurrected to physical bodies. These must stand before the throne. If their names are written in the Lamb’s books, their “bad” deeds in the Book of Remembrance are “blotted out” and they, too, are given “white” robes… spirit bodies. If their name is NOT in the Lamb’s scroll, their “bad” deeds stand in the other scroll. And because the wage of sin IS death, their body AND their spirit is destroyed in the Lake of Fire, Gehenna.
Ezekiel described the second (general) resurrection, as hope for the first had not been given yet. That did not occur until Messiah came in the flesh. Israel’s hope… all the way back… was for resurrection to everlasting life on earth, as part of a holy nation belonging to God. However, through Christ, a NEW hope (indeed, the TRUE hope) was held out, one that ancient Israel had never entertained (because they did not stay loyal and faithful long enough to learn the truth about it). True, Abraham, et al., were waiting for a city having real foundations and belonging to God. But that hope was merely for the return of the “garden” [of Eden]… which return was to the earth. It was not, however, a hope for a position of rulership in that city.
The city… New Jerusalem… is NOT in heaven. And it is NOT a literal city. It is PEOPLE. It is established in heaven, true – because that’s where the “marriage” of the Lamb and his Bride, the “city” of “New Jerusalem”… takes place. In the spirit realm. But then it comes “down” [out of heaven] to the earth. Meaning, it (they) are no longer INVISIBLE as sons of God… but VERY visible. And given rulership. And by means of their “white robes,” their spirit bodies, they will be able to “go in and out” between the two. Like angels. In this way, God brings together… AGAIN… the things in heaven and the things on earth. There will no longer be a separation between the physical world and the spirit world… as it was in the days of Adham.
How about the JW argument that someone must rule or reign over the earth? Rev 20:1-6 Rev. 20 is a theological minefield. Whatever view of the Millennium one has, there's always SOMETHING in Rev. 20 that doesn't fit. The rulership is ON the earth… not “over” it. They don’t rule from heaven such that they never access the physical realm. They rule… as a “sanctified body”… a “holy city,”… over those on the earth. The acts of this rulership is VERY simple: it consists of the separation of sheep… from goats (Gog)… and takes approximately 1,000 years. That is what the rulership is all about.
Why does this list of tribes not match any other of the some 20 combinations of tribes of Jews. Because Joseph won the right of firstborn from Rueben, so he received two shares (Joseph, representing his son, Ephraim, who was almost wiped out), and Manasseh, his other son. Which would make 13; however, Dan is not included because his lineages was not included in the rolls of “Israel.” This is because Dan gave his share over to his enemies who chased them into the hills. Rather than standing and fighting like all of the other tribes, Dan ran and just gave the land up. So… no share in the kingdom, either.
Some denominations teach the 144,000 are literal virgin Jews – This is an error. Jews make up on 24,000 of the 144,000. Jews are those of the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah, made up of Judah and Benjamin. Rehoboam was their first king, and they worshipped at the temple in Jerusalem, the capital of Judea. Israel still had 10 other tribes, which made up the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel. Jeroboam was their first king, and they worshipped at a “temple” in Bethel (a center of false worship), the capital of Samaria. Thus, the apostles were told they would be witnesses “in all Judea and Samaria,” for they were apostles to all of Israel, both the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah and Benjamin (the Jews) AND the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel (of which Cornelius was the first to be called). Paul… was an apostle to the nations.
Before closing, I will share this final thought with you, which I received from my Lord a little over a year ago when some dear ones wanted to go through and read/study the Revelation:
The Revelation is difficult to understand is because one cannot simply read it and understand it. It is a REVELATION... a "revealing"... and so must be REVEALED… by the One who is responsible for revealing it, JAHSHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. That One reveals the truth of everything written by John in this particular account. Sometimes he uses Michael (as he did here), and sometimes not (as he also did here). Michael is the one whose voice is as a "trumpet," while my Lord is the one whose voice is "as many waters." Michael appears first... and when John turns around to see who is speaking... he sees my Lord. My Lord gives him messages for the 7 congregations, after which he turns John back over to Michael (Revelation 4:1).
I shall stop here. It's late and I have a train to catch in the early morning, so I will bid you all peace… and good night.
A slave of Christ,
SA
