by tryingtoexit 22 Replies latest jw friends
The Watchtowers use of Isaac Newton is similar to what can been seen throughout evangelical christianity. Use the religious writings of a well known historical figure to prove that "smart people agree with us". Einstein is often used as well in this regard.
The truth is, Isaac Newton had all kind of absurd religious ideas that nobody in their right mind would even bother defending today (including his own brand of eschatology).
I tend towards the comment that they are "....gently back peddling on some issues and will become more mainstream - they have to in order to survive". I am incresingly finding that the study articles are often 180deg from each other. Ones like this that present a better view point (but not perfect) where clearly much of the research was/can be found on the Internet along with additional tidbits such as Heath, who is not mentioned, but influenced Dunn. This is opposite to other areticles that do the "you better do this or else" rules & regulations without scriptural support. I personally enjoyed this one because it does allow for exegeses thought.
There were so many gaps about witless doctrines - they sang a great song about the talk "Millions Now Living" but omitted all the ridiculous claims it made about 1925 - nor did they point out that most of the millions then living are now DEAD.
They also deliberately implied by OMISSION that Russell taught 1914 as the beginning of the time of the end.
He taught 1799, and that the great tribulation would be OVER by 1914. Anybody who knows the litterature of the time who read this study would be fully aware of these omissions and WHY they were made - so the gofors would not realise how the Wtichtower Babble and Trash society has been talking crap for 140 years.
They also implied that Newton was some kind of primitive "Uber - christian" he was an occultist, and some occult teachings actually influenced his science (forces acting on objects at a distance ie spells)
They certainly picked their own plums from Milton. Anyone reading the two works mentioned would not get the ideas of JWs. The poems have been available for centuries, yet nobody agrees with their ideas.
It was also unfair to ST Augustine. He was trying to work out why - since Jesus said he would return in the lifetime of his disciples, why the millennial reign had not come. That is why he decided it had to be symbolic, not because he didn't want to be a JW.
They quote a historian of science and technology Stephen Snobelen. Who talks of "pre apostate"christianity. What credible historian passes judgment of this kind on the ideas he is recounting?
It is like calling William the Conqueror bad and King Harold good. Historians recount facts and interpret them, they do not say the religious ideas of one side or another in the account are true or false (he is a very religious man and his own views are allowed to pollute what should be an UNBIASED account.)
They also implied how loving it was that Jehovah showed by 1934 that those hoping to live on earth should now be baptised. EXCUSE me - the apostles taught that everybody who puts faith in Christ should be baptised. (as shown in John 6 everybody having this faith should also eat his flesh and drink his blood symbolically)
And lastly, they failed in the study to account for the fact that not a single writer of the NT points out that those who hope to live on earth forever should not partake of the emblems. Can any body who thought this article balanced explain this please.
It only seems a balanced study because it deliberately skirted around the real issues, and allowed the congo to sit there without having to think (yet again)
HB
Sorry to do this post here as well i just found the thread and it seemed more appropriate here.
My mom rang me last night. She knows I'm interested in science and brought up this watchtower in hopes of catching my interest. I have not read this article (and don't plan to). She told me it said that Newton knew about the paradise even before Russell was on the scene. So very intelligent people throughout history have known "the truth". She said I really should read it, I'd find it interesting. I told her that I had recently been reading about Newton (she was surprised, they really can't imagine people reading things that don't come out of Brooklyn). I acknowledged that indeed Newton was a believer in god, then I explained to her that this belief in god is what held back this otherwise genius from putting his own ideas together. When things got difficult to figure out - he just gave up and said "it must be god". She actually admitted that "yes, people do tend to say god things did things when they seem mysterious". Sorry mom, don't bother sending the watchtower. Already got it covered.
Wow,
This would certainly explain the exchange that transpired last night between my wife and I at the grocery store.
Wife: We had a talk last night about feeding yourself upon apostate information and drifting away from the truth. I understand you're going on this apostate chat forum and it has affected your thinking. Russell discovered the real truth after centuries of apostate thinking within Christendom.
Me: How has this web site affected me and my love for Bible truth and God?
Wife: People who feed upon apostate information become apostates of Jehovah God and the truth of the Bible. Christendom apostatized and turned away from the truth until Russell later discovered it.
Me: So, you're going door to door telling people your version of the truth isn't like making Christians become apostates of their faith? The way I see it, Christians have the truth but the Watchtower Society apostatized from it by twisting the scriptures to suit their doctrines.
Wife: What they say is the truth, tell me one teaching of theirs that did not come from the Bible.
Me: 1914, did you know that one of the ways Russell predicted it was by the use of pyramidology and astrology? Apparently, the measurements of the pyramid led Russell to conclude that Armagheddon will occur in 1914 along with the planets aligning on one side of the pyramid of Giza?
Wife: Laughs hysterically thinking I lost my mind.
Me: I'm glad you're laughing because I found it just as funny when I discovered this myself. You're laughing at your own religion and believe me, I laugh with you.
Wife: Stops laughing, realizing that I had no reason to be insulted. This is the teachings of her own religion.
Me: Honey, I understand you're trying to serve God the best way you know how. So am I. As much as I wish you could see the things that I see concerning your religion, I understand that for one reason or another you will choose not to look. All I can do is support you in your faith but at the same time I cannot in good concious join you in it.
This must have gotten to my wife because that night she started again looking in the proclaimers book. I told her to look it up, Russell's use of pyramidology is in there. I also explained that even though that book exposes some of the WT's background, it still covers a lot of things up. For example, a picture of Russell's tombstone is in there but not a picture of his 7 foot tall pyramid memorial.
Russell discerned from the Bible that the time had come to make the good news widely known. So in 1879, he started publishing Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence, now called The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom. Previously, the truth about mankind's hope was understood by very few people, but now groups of Bible Students in many countries were receiving and studying The Watchtower. The belief that only a few will go to heaven, whereas millions will be given perfect human life on earth, set the Bible Students apart from Christendom.
My reply: They taught all Christians (Bible Students) went to heaven. The great crowd did not get pushed until 1931-5ish.....
marking
is it not funny on how they glorify and quote wordly sources when it fits their needs?
dare you not without their permission
So they are glorifying Isaac Newton? Remember, he had a major "problem" with independent thinking. I wonder how long Newton would stay an active witless in today's congregations--he went against the Establishment then, and he would go against the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger as well.
Thanks to everybody that came by and shared their thoughts.
designs- the revisionist history is the main thing the Society uses in my opinion to keep people "brain boxed" lol
flipper- everytime I read about the generation fiasco I feel embarrassed that I was ever a witness
Cicatrix- You're right, I mean exactly right, 2010 is going to be an interesting year for me, cause right now I'm compiling all my knowledge secretly into documents, DVD's, everything, so when I finally lay it all on my family, I wont be forgetting key points, I'll have ALL the information right in front of me, it will be a "talk" that they've never heard before, lol.
wobble- Yeah, I'm not suprised that there are other people in my situation. I really dont know, my wife is very very LOYAL to the WTS, I honestly know if I told her right now....that I will never be a JW again, she would try to put me out. Our marriage has suffered because of my actions to leave, and she wants me to save our marriage by coming back, that's why I'm gathering my info now, so that they can see I didnt leave on emotion....or because of what someone did to me, I left because of all the false teachings that are flat out wrong that they continue to teach. I'm gonna prepare the evidence like an attorney trying to bring down a killer, lol.
sammielee24- See that's retarded, and the funny part about is, Witness should know better, in the Revelation book it says "in 35 this crowd was identified"........that's in the 89 version of the book, so if you know your publications, you would know, how did Russell know of the TWO hopes back then, when nobody realized it until 19 years AFTER Russell died???? They're all either idiots or like to be in the dark.....
drew sagan- Very well said I never looked at it like that
Hamsterbait- No problem posting that here, I appreciate that, it's funny you mentioned that about the apostle Paul baptizing people. If these were "sincere truth-seekers" shouldnt they have known long before 1935 that people should be baptized??? How did they overlook those parts of the Bible for so long? LOL! Anyone else think the questions you get asked before you get baptized is like selling your soul over to the Society?? *shrugs*
MissingLink- That is so true, whenever I tell my parents the things I've read outside the Society's literature they act like I'm the smartest person in the world and go on and on about how proud of me they are, and how intelligent I am. I'm like nope, I just know how to read and comprehend, that's all, lol. Hope one day they'll be able to do the same.
garyneal- Yup, sounds like you and I have similar encounters with our wives. I had a conversation very similar with my wife about 3 months ago. I like your choice of words, something for me to learn from. Sad for them and frustrating I'm sure, but they'll never find the answers they're looking for in the Society's publications, but that unsatisfying feeling wont push them to search outside of them.
isaacaustin- Exactly, somebody should've corrected that in a comment during the meeting. Somebody probably did and got DF'd that same night, lol.
DaCheech- Right, but only when it fit's their needs, they do all the research so YOU WON'T HAVE TOO. Gimme a break..
WTWizard- Great points
