Living in the western "rich" world we are spoiled and don't understand harships! Agree?

by Witness 007 38 Replies latest jw experiences

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    I think this is an incorrect, rather ignorant blanket statement that may apply to a small percentage of people in the 'rich' western world. There are many people in the western world just a paycheck away from trouble. So, I am not so sure they would agree with this statement. It also takes all you can do to stay afloat in the so-called 'rich' western world. There are many needs forced on people in the western world just to survive. Cars and phones are some things along with a computer. It is very complicated to live in the western world and we cannot change any of it.

    The only thing I will agree with is that it is probably somewhat better to be poor in the western world than in the third world, only because the poor may have some access to services of some kind, but that's about it.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    You cannot compare apples and oranges - it doesn't work. You cannot take a western standardized measure and apply it to another country where infrastructure costs, climate, technology, health, education, housing, military etc are all rolled into one and put it up against another country where half of those things do not exist - because of a government unwillingness or inability to progress in the same way.

    The poverty rate is set inside the country, because that is what the country has determined people should be able to exist on. In many cases, this is an unrealistic figure because it does not include the cost of food, transportation or utilities but it is still the figure that is determined statistically. The same figure cannot be applied equally to the same measure in another country that may not have the same measure of application.

    It would be easier to compare say rental costs, food costs, medicine, education, transportation etc. If the poverty level in the USA is set at approximately $14.500.00 for a couple, and that couple for example is living in an 800 sq foot trailer in California it is very easy to see that said couple is not living on $114.00 a day. Average rent is about $800.00 a month plus utilities for about a minimum of $1,000. a month. That leaves the couple about $2500.00 for the rest of the year to live on - or about $200.00 a month or about $50.00 per week.

    Federal minimum wage is $7.50 and out of that wage, taxes are taken which go into a pool of taxes which in turn a portion is diverted into impoverished countries for medical or other aid.

    There is therefore, no way to realistically compare except to say that there are many people in the USA who have gone to bed hungry and cold. There are many seniors and poor who eat sparsely. There are many who close off rooms in their homes during winter because they cannot afford the heating costs. Many cut back on medicine or go without because they cannot afford what they need. Tonight, thousands will sit in the dark because the power has been cut off and thousands more will receive eviction or foreclosure notices for housing they cannot afford. Hundreds more will be moving out of the tents the cities are evicting them from and moving into another tent somewhere else, while somewhere another hundred thousand fathers are putting blankets over their kids sleeping in the back seat of the car - their new home.

    Standards set in the 'western' world were set because it was believed this was a standard of quality of life in that 'western' world - when we have disintegrated into a level where we believe our people must feel poverty as determined in the 'underprivileged' countries, it says a lot for how low our standards have dropped and to what we may start to find acceptable. sammieswife.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    I agree we are spoiled. But I don't take our modern conveniences for granted or lightly as I have lived without:

    - indoor plumbing (no running water indoors using a hand pump from a well, having to use an outhouse, and taking sponge baths)

    - electricity

    - gas or oil heat

    Prior to the discovery of petroleum, we all lived this way. There are basic needs for life. Access to clean water, nutritious food, and shelter are essential. I personally believe these are fundamental human rights.

    Poverty takes away peoples' human needs - Physical, Emotional, Mental, and Spiritual. It's ugly. Those in power can do something but in many countries, they turn a blind eye. My colleague from Africa calls it 'corruption'. How do the WTS and JWs help in this vein? It always bothered me that they didn't take a more active role in helping out in this regard.

    Poverty tugs at my heartstrings. We talk about it often at work. I feel education is key. There are groups around the world working towards helping people. If you are educated properly, you can do things to better your situation, regardless of whether you are 'industrialized' or not. Water capture/harvesting systems may be a better option for these people in Bolivia. But do they know how to do this and have access to resources to execute?

    I have been learning about a topic called "Permaculture". These people have gone into desert areas and 'greened' them. Basically making a desert area into a 'food' forest. There are ways to bring people out of poverty -- there are people doing this around the world. If you have time check out Geoff Lawton's video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S6kTlz6Mk4

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Just because one billion people have to do without is no excuse for Osama Obama to go ahead and make that 1.3 billion. Whatever happened to creating value to drive prices down, so those in "poor" countries would have to do without less--ultimately having some of those value creators in those "poor" countries that would start giving them things that we will have to "do without"--until Osama Obama is impeached.

    I don't feel like working so I can bring home a paycheck, pay that whole thing to Osama Obama, have him distribute it to the "poor", and leave me even poorer than the "poor" originally were. If the "poor" countries cannot get out of their stagnation because of their governments, why should Osama Obama force me to help those governments and give them incentive to maintain oppressive policies? Now, how many people would have to do without if someone were to radically advance the technology to guarantee perfect harvests of perfect crops? Or, to take the dirtiest water and create pure water from it? Or, take the CO 2 out of the air and make more oil, in such quantities that we would never run out? If someone were allowed to do that, the "poor" countries would be able to get rich quickly without impoverishing anyone else.

    I hope Osama Obama gets impeached trying to sign us up for the One World Totalitarian Government, or for signing us on to Codex Alimentarius (which will cause even worse problems as health care costs are driven up by monopoly drug prices and vitamin deprived people getting sick).

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I think your middle class existence has blinded you to the lives of other American citizens:

    All I can say is you don't know me, and what I have done with my life.

    those who must buy ill fitting, used, blue jeans at Goodwill and go to food pantries in order to have something to eat.

    Fair enough. So there is a world of difference between having to buy your clothes at Goodwill and not having anything to wear. There is a world of difference between being able to go to the food bank and not having anything to eat.

    Incidently the second quote used to describe me.

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    There is a world of difference between being able to go to the food bank and not having anything to eat.

    Many food banks are running out of food. There is poverty in America. People are losing their jobs, nest egg, homes, cars, unemployment compensation and are living in tents.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    I never said there wasn't poverty in America. But I am saying it is relative. If you want to see the difference, go to Calcutta.

  • Goshawk
    Goshawk

    I never said there wasn't poverty in America. But I am saying it is relative. If you want to see the difference, go to Calcutta .

    You don't have to go that far, try Mexico.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    There is an equalisation going on at the macrolevel. Wealth is being transfered eastward. Africa is still mainly out of the picture. The bailouts that bush started is transfereing wealth from the american middle class to the upper class. Maybe, the bailout should have been a lot more limited.

    S

  • Robdar
    Robdar

    I never said there wasn't poverty in America. But I am saying it is relative. If you want to see the difference, go to Calcutta.

    You pretty much dismissed poverty in America when you poo-pood villabolo's statement about the suffering of the lower classes in the U.S.

    Then you tell me to go to Kolkata if I want to see really poor people.

    Why should I go to India when I can go to the Appalachians to see starvation, deprivation, and people living in houses with dirt floors and no indoor plumbing? People who have to go to the bathroom in holes they dug in their back yard?

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