A Statement in the WTS from 10/25/09

by lepermessiah 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  lepermessiah

  There was a statement in the WT study yesterday that really struck me.

  I believe it was in the box pimping the "Keep Yourself In Big Brother's Love" oops...."Keep Yourself in GOD's LOVE" book.

  It was a simple statement but hit me like a ton of bricks - furthering my resentment toward the Hateful and Indiscreet Slave.

  It said something like ..."many people have LEFT JEHOVAH'S love" and went on to mention conduct instead of doctrine being the cause.

  It really got me thinking:

  1) Doesnt God love unconditionally? Isnt that why he sent Jesus Christ forth?

  2) Does the WTB$ feel they are greater than John 3:16? Doesnt God love the WORLD so much?

  3) If all parents responded toward their children the way that the WTB$ represents Jehovah, we would all be screwed. Any mistake in conduct would be considered "leaving our parents". What does the lessons of David in the bible teach us? It looks like it takes a LOT for God to abandon a loyal but imperfect human who loves his/her creator, the same way a parent often has unconditional love even toward the "worst" of children.

  I read Blondie's review of the article and Blondie said it best:

  Leaving Jehovah = Leaving WTBS

  I think it is so insulting toward God to publish such total garbage. The WTB$ makes God out to be this slavedriver who is never happy......

  I have a REALLY hard time beliving that God loves only 7 million out of his BILLIONS of children on this earth.

  In addition to that, many of those 7 million are SELF-RIGHTEOUS, hypocritical D-bags......
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to say in the first paragraphs that someone can fall out of Jehovah's love, then they want the reader to understand that whatever happens, it's the person's fault- he left Jehovah's love.

  Jehovah can stop loving you, but it's all your fault if He does.
• 

  leavingwt

  Doesnt God love unconditionally?

  Which God? I've never heard this regarding YHWH.
• 

  Georgiegirl

  That struck me, too. Clever, isn't it? Especially b/c most of us that leave DO start living normal lives which usually eventually include a romantic partner - so the "bad conduct" becomes self-fufilling... I would love to see a real breakdown of WHY people actually leave.
• 

  PSacramento

  Jesus taught us to love one another, now many say that is apllcable to only "fellow christians" but jesus also made it very clear that "If we love only our brothers or those that love us, what does that matter? even the gentile does that" ( I am praphprasing of course).

  Fact is Jesus tells us to love and to take care of each other, even more so it can be argued, our enemies.
• 

  oldseeker

  I think the scripture the article was based on was particularly good for the time period involved. Jude 21 - "keep yourselves in God's love, while you are waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ with everlasting life in view". Considering that Jude had just written: (Jude 4) "My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgement, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ".

  So, Jude here was addressing the problems within the congregation, not in the world in general. Jude wasn't talking about those who leave the congregation, but trying to help those "within" the congregation to endure the corruption "within" the congregation. I think this puts a little different slant on the issue of what it means to leave God's love, at least as far as the articles key scripture Jude 21. The problem with this article is just as has been stated, it boils down simply to: "Leave the Org. and you leave Jehovah's love". I really like Judes take on it better: (essentially) "You really need to protect yourselves form the corruption within the Organization".

  oldseeker
• 

  oldseeker

  Now, this whole idea of God's love brings up a question I have. This may not be the right place for it, but here goes: I have read a little from 1 Enoch, at least the material that deals with the angels that "forsook there own proper dwelling place" and took wives on the earth.

  Genesis chapter 6 details what happened when the offspring of the angels (the Nephilim) became prominent. (Gen. 6:5) "Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination ofthe thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time". (Gen 6:7) "So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, .... because I do regret that I have made them.""

  Excuse me, but doesn't it seem that the real problem here wasn't man but the angels that decided they wanted women, and to have children? If God had stopped the angels from doing this, would man have gotten to the level of violence that supposedly brought on their own destruction by the flood. Or, would it have taken many centuries more for this level of violence to manifest?

  It seems humans were the sacrifices here for the angels misdeads. Reminds me of the saying "Parents do you know where your children are?" Didn't Jehovah know what was going on and whee his children were? What kind of test is this?

  I've become more and more questioning on the idea of "God's love", at least that God always loves us. I'm coming to believe that the love God shows to us is IN Jesus Christ, not "through" him. Maybe, in some way, Jesus tempers the side of Jehovah that Genesis 6 reveals as wanting to kill all of us.

  I think I have more than one question, but mainly what really happened in Enoch's day? Why were the angels allowed to change the entire course of human history?

  oldseeker
• 

  VoidEater

  Lots of people in different religions will try to limit God's love to a select few.

  There's also the concept of Universal Reconciliation (or Universal Salvation) that says all are loved and all are forgiven.

  Since in the final analysis each of us chooses what to believe in this regard, I think what we believe easily becomes a reflection of our character and how much love we ourselves can express.
• 

  PSacramento

  Angels had free will, just like humans.
• 

  Leolaia

  So, Jude here was addressing the problems within the congregation, not in the world in general. Jude wasn't talking about those who leave the congregation, but trying to help those "within" the congregation to endure the corruption "within" the congregation.

  See especially v. 12:

  "These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm".