How do you explain...

by AwSnap 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  PSacramento

  Awsnap,

  I believe that the spiritual parts of the OT were written by men insipred by God to write what they believed God was telling them.

  Much of the OT is stories and history, some of it literal and some of it figurative.

  Much of the OT is men "blaming" God for the crap they did or were going through, perhaps in earnest or perhaps as an excuse as many "cruzade motivated christians" did in the past.

  We see in our own day and age how easily some twist or try to twist the WRITTEN word, imaging in the past when they were the ones writting.

  We must take the bible for what it is and try to understand where it is consistent and try to understand where it deviates from consistency.

  EX: If we are to believe that God is an all knowing, all powerful and ever present being, does any of the truly horrice things attributed to God make any sense?

  I mean, if you and I as lowly and imperfect humans can understand right and wrong, compassion and hatred, love and jealousy, shouldn't an all powerful being undertsand them even more so?

  And if God does how can he act outside the very nature of things he created and do horrific acts?

  Is that the mark of a supreme being?
• 

  AwSnap

  I am (oBviously) far from being a Bible scholar. I asked the question in case I ever brought it up to my jw. You all have very interesting viewpoints...not sure I agree, but it's definitely marinating.
• 

  cognac

  This is the kjv bible states that scripture:

  And the evilspirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat 6 in his house with his javelin in his hand: and Davidplayed 18 with [his] hand.

  Spirit can also be defined as this: (Hebrew word for spirit in this instance being "ruwach"

  air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

  Seems to me that God was just angry at Saul because of his attitide. Notice the beginning of the next verse that states Saul's attitude:

  And Saulsought 17 to smite 53 David

  And even further then that, didn't God protect David and Saul after this event occured?
• 

  cognac

  Aguest - do you think it was a lying pen as Jeremiah stated or do you think spirit could ALSO be defined as anger in some instances? Thus, our perception of what happened altered a bit due to different understandings of the word "spirit"?
• 

  Chalam

  Here's another!

  Judges 9:23 (English Standard Version)

  23 And God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the leaders of Shechem, and the leaders of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech

  Try some commentaries for insight

  http://biblecommenter.com/judges/9-23.htm

  http://biblecommenter.com/1_samuel/16-14.htm

  http://biblecommenter.com/1_samuel/18-10.htm

  http://biblecommenter.com/1_samuel/19-9.htm

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  cognac

  If you read the chapters before, Saul rejected God so that was why God rejected him in the special priviledge of neing King. 1 Sam. 15:23

  However, even though he did that, he repented before God. 1 Sam. 15:25

  Even though God was upset with Saul, he offered a way for him to have peace if Saul now followed what God told him to do. 1 Sam. 16:16

  Saul followed this counsel. 1 Sam. 16:17

  Since Saul followed what God had told him to do, he now was refreshed and at peace. God's anger had departed from him. 1 Sam 16:23
• 

  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  do you think it was a lying pen as Jeremiah stated or do you think spirit could ALSO be defined as anger in some instances? Thus, our perception of what happened altered a bit due to different understandings of the word "spirit"?

  Yes. "Spirit" can most certainly be defined as anger... or even some other emotion. I have no doubt that Saul was angry - he was jealous of David to the point of wanting to kill him. I'd say that's pretty angry. The LIE here, however... is that GOD gave Saul such a spirit... or "made" Saul angry. Now, none of US... were there. So, how do WE know what did... or did NOT... happen?

  It is SO easy, dear Cognac: we only need to LOOK... at the "copper serpent." Do you recall that when in the wilderness, the Israelites were bitten by poisonous snakes and God had Moses create a copper serpent which the people had to look at if they didn't want to die? It is the SAME... with Christ. We have... ALL of us... been "bitten"... by poisonous snakes. The "offspring of vipers," who want us to believe things that are NOT TRUE. Lies. That originate from their father. Particularly lies... about the MOST Holy One of Israel, God, JAH of Armies. He started with his lies in the garden [of Eden] and never stopped. Even to this day.

  These "snakes" had NO conscience... such that they would say, indeed write, things about the MOST Holy One of Israel... that are NOT TRUE. We, then, have to keep OUR gaze... on CHRIST:

  "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up..." John 3:14

  Christ is the IMAGE... of God... and the very REPRESENTATION of His being. So, if you want to know IF God did something, did NOT do something, WOULD do something... LOOK AT CHRIST. Did Christ give ANYONE a bad spirit? COULD he have... and still have been the loving person he was? Or did he DEMONSTRATE is love... by casting OUT bad spirits? There are those here that say God and Christ are one [being]. Yet, they believe that the MOST Holy One of Israel is capable of doing... and DID... things that Christ would NEVER... COULD never... have done!

  And THAT IS HOW YOU KNOW... the TRUTH: Christ... IS THE TRUTH. LOOK AT HIM... and you will SEE God... THROUGH him. If HE didn't do it... GOD didn't do it! If he DID it... GOD did it!

  It is that simple, dear Cognac, truly. Christ said he came to bear witness to the truth. And why? Because of just this very thing: the LYING pen! That's why he said, "WOE to you... scribes!" And why he said, "You HEARD it was said" such and so. Well, if you look up those "heards"... you will find that they ARE WRITTEN. Does that make them LAW? Just because they are WRITTEN? NO!!! That is what Christ was trying to TELL us:

  DON'T PUT YOUR FAITH IN WHAT IS WRITTEN... because what is written... is not always TRUE! PUT IT... IN HIM... because he IS the Truth... and what HE says... is ALWAYS true! Always.

  Thus, he said:

  "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

  If we could start by hearing THIS truth... we would at least BEGIN to make a way IN us... "prepare" our hearts... so that he... and the Father... can come INTO us... and reside IN us... and write their Law... which is a Law of LOVE... on our HEARTS... so that we no longer need to see the Law in ink or on stone tablets. So that we no longer need to walk... by SIGHT... but by FAITH... in his VOICE. Which voice SPEAKS.

  I am sorry, dear Cognac - I didn't mean to get so... well, emotional. Not teary... but I am tired. And fatigued... and very sad. Because this really is elementary. It is not rocket science. But it is difficult... because Israel lacks faith... still. And all it takes is faith... the size of a mustard seed.

  I realize, for the first time, I think... why it is I felt SO sad when he first said I had faith the size of a mustard seed... and I couldn't understand why those I THOUGHT had so much faith hadn't been "chosen." The sadness I felt... was his. And I feel it again, now. And it is great.

  Good night, dear one. I need to go for a bit. You know, kind of be "ministered" to, spiritually. Because it is a very deep sadness... and I am not sure I can handle it on my own, right now.

  May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord and Master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy One of Israel AND the Holy Spirit... be upon you... and open YOUR ears so that YOU might hear his voice, as well... if you so wish it.

  I bid you peace.

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  Tuesday

  From what I remember this scripture is clarified in Chronicles and told differently. So they ignore the Samuel story and go for the Chronicles version.

  It's like the census that King David did, at first God told him to do it with evil spirit, then it was Satan that made him do it. I'm pretty sure it would be the same there.