by jonathan dough 189 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Our Lord Jesus' life as the DIVINE SON of God and the incarnation of GOD himself (emmanuel, meaning "God With Us") was worth far more than that of just one perfect man. That is why the bible says that the price paid by Christ's death was far exceeding what was lost by Adam.
Ah yes, the old "only God could die for us", yep ... that's the answer to everything right? the unholy Trinity!
Ah yes, the old "only God could die for us", yep ... that's the answer to everything right? the unholy Trinity!
She happens to be right. What's your point? In English this time? Are you switching topics to the Trinity? There's already a thread on that.
Robdar,
I have a copy of the Torah even though I am Christian. I am interested in Jewish thought. Not to hijack this thread but I always believed that the book we call Genesis (the first book of Torah) is viewed by Jews to be a historical book regarding God's creation and the early history of the Jewish people.
Are you saying that you (as a Jew) do not accept the book of Genesis at all, or are you saying we as Christians are taking this account out of context or too literal? Especially in relation to Adam and Eve?
I've heard two different views on the Adam and Eve account from Christians. One is that Adam and Eve were representative of mankind (Adam literally translated "mankind") and not literally a first man and women. And the other is the opposite view that they were two literal people.
I am sincerly interested in your answer to this. Are you in agreement with either of the two Christians views or niether and why?
Also, if Jews do not believe in original sin, what is the purpose of the Messiah coming to them?
I have to go off to work now but will re-join this thread sometime tomarrow. Lilly
She happens to be right. What's your point? In English this time? Are you switching topics to the Trinity? There's already a thread on that.
er ... no! She's wrong, the Trinity is wrong and No, I don't care to discuss it, because it is a fruitless discussion.
Lilly, I will shoot you my email address and we can discuss this at length. Or, if you want my cell, we can chat. I have AT&T. If you do too, talk is free which is about a cheap as you can get.
But to answer your question, I am saying that Christians take the account too literally. The Bible is full of history, legends, myths, metaphors and allegories. It is written that way to to cause you to ponder the Lord, your life and creation.
Although Jews are free to interpret the Bible any way they wish, most Jews agree that we are born innocent. We choose to do right or wrong--Satan, Jesus and "original sin" are not factors in our life's story. By saying that Satan is in charge of this world, Christians are giving too much power to Satan. We find this appalling and a form of idolatry.
Judaism is about life. It is a religion of life. We believe that you are to embrace this life as a gift from God. We do believe the world is broken and it is important to perform mitzvot to help the Lord repair it. To give up on this life and not accept personal responsibility is a grave sin. No mediator is necessary in your life because the Lord loves you and welcomes you. Besides, if you take care of this life the one to follow will take care of itself.
I could go on and on....we can talk later. And if you really want to know about Judaism, you can look over Judaism 101. Although it is from an Orthodox Jewish viewpoint and I am a reform Jew, I think it is still a helpful site. http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm
By saying that Satan is in charge of this world, Christians are giving too much power to Satan.
Are you saying that Satan played no role in the holocaust?
Satan .... are not factors in our life's story.
You have got to be kidding. Jews actually believe this? That is utterly insane.
Are you saying that Satan played no role in the holocaust?
He did not.
You have got to be kidding. Jews actually believe this? That is utterly insane.
Believe what you want. Worship who you want.
http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html
There you go again, trying to use the old testament to prove your point. They are two completely different points of view and do not support each other. Stick with your own book and do not try to interpret mine--especially to prove yours to be true or superior. If you are incorrect with the interpretation of one and use it it as a source to make your point, you will be incorrect with the interpretation of the other.
Jonathan:
If you haven't checked out the site I gave above, here is a little of it to explain the Jewish views of Satan.
Everything in the universe was created by G-d and only by G-d. Judaism completely rejects the dualistic notion that evil was created by Satan or some other deity. All comes from G-d. As Isaiah said, "I am the L-rd, and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I am the L-rd, that does all these things." (Is. 45:6-7).
Here's a little more for you from the same source:
Judaism maintains that we are all G-d's children. A well-known piece of Jewish liturgy repeatedly describes G-d as "Avinu Malkeinu," our Father, our King. The Talmud teaches that there are three participants in the formation of every human being: the mother and father, who provide the physical form, and G-d, who provides the soul, the personality, and the intelligence. It is said that one of G-d's greatest gifts to humanity is the knowledge that we are His children and created in his image.
Stick with your own book and do not try to interpret mine--especially to prove yours to be true or superior.
First, the OT is both of our books, and you can't lay exclusive claim to it. And secondly, Christians don't believe one is superior to the other as they are all one writing. It is all tied together completey intertwined and inseparable. It is just the New Covenant supplanted the Old Covenant.
