by dssynergy 12 Replies latest jw friends
New to the board, first post.
Just curious if anyone has ever tried to leave because of an invalid baptism. If a person felt their baptism was invalid because they did it under pressure, and did not really devote themselves to Jehovah, and would not now be baptized if given the chance ~ would they still be disfellowshipped or disassociated??
thx,
DS
Welcome dssynergy I think you'll find TOO MANY Baptisms were under pressure (emotional blackmail even)! Were you a teen? I was a young teen...and Jesus was 30.
I was baptized at 17 and they take anyone's baptism seriously as if the person is a full fledged adult. They won't df you if you haven't broken a rule. If you quit going and then start breaking rules, they might try to get you then if they see you.
I was of the belief that I was nothing in the congregation or even family if I wasn't baptized. My baptism was for status and nothing more.
White Dove - My baptism was for status and nothing more.
Yes White Dove - that and shifting responsibility.
ooops, duplicate posting:)
Hi DSS and welcome!
Personally I believe all JW baptisms are invalid. See here for example.
15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.
JWs think they believe and are baptised as verse 16 says. However, look at verse 17, do the "signs" follow JWs?
I asked my JW friend the very same question. He said they weren't passing round the deadly poison to drink on Sundays. I said "neither are we".
However, I did mention I have seen other signs a plenty, speaking in tongues, healing and such. He responded that they don't believe those signs are for today. I rest my case.
Blessings,
Stephen
Hj dssynergy
My ex wife was baptised at about sixteen under parent and peer pressure
years later when she met me and married she told the elders she thought her baptism then was invalid because of extenuating circumstances and aked to be re-baptised which they did.
So if the org is consistant they should likewise take others baptisms as invalid!
Good way to stop being DF'd ,but they are'nt from god and are'nt consistant ,as I remember god says he never changes ,but they do ,just look at their history
Welcome DSS !
This has been asked before, if you use the search facility on here (top of page, magnifying glass symbol) you can read the threads.
Basically, if you want to leave without being DA'd or DF'd you would have to prove to the satisfaction of the Elders that you have NEVER accepted that the WT is god's org. and you never accepted a contractual relationship with it by taking "privileges" , even something small like working at an assembly as a volunteer, or just looking after a contribution box, can be argued as entering into their contract.
Depending on what outcome you want, I would research very well, and tread carefully !
Love
Wobble
Really Frustrated that I can't post another new topic for 10 more hours...UGH.
My other discussion question has to do with confession. The way I read the literature, it is a suggested practice ~ not a command. The magazines indicated that a person might reason they can just confess to Jehovah because he is the forgiver of sins, but goes on to say that that may not be enough because the person hasn't gotten the spiritual help they need to overcome their sin. However, no where could I find in recent literature that confession to elders was ever required. It is always a strong suggestion. Am I reading it wrong??
The thing I see is that if someone has something they are struggling with, and they slip up ~ the elders are not qualified counselors to help the person examine why they are behaving that way, and to get to the root of it to stop the behavior. It is a very black and white system. There isn't room for people to really resolve their issues.
of course, this comes up because I am currently struggling with some things. And I am working with myself to get to the bottom of the issue ~ but will not be discussing it with the elders or my family or any one else that I might know. I have faded before, and come back. But I think this time, I am going to fade and not come back again. I am enough of a flake and unpredictable enough already at this point that it shouldn't take too long.
I don't mind keeping my opinions to myself. I think the JWs are probably 80% right about what they teach. But it is that 80/20 principal. It is the 20% that I am not willing to promote or pretend I agree with. They might be right about more than I think. I just wish, that when they were wrong they would say "we were wrong. We have done more studying and here is what we think now" or "Here is our best guess at this time. Future events will bear out if we are correct". I think part of it though too is that if they were that honest, and said that ~ people would FREAK out. People want other people to tell them exactly everything to do, think, or say. And they want definite answers.
