where is the proof that the holy spirit is an impersonal active force?

by javig 31 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  PSacramento

  The NT gives a "personality" to the HS, it is a "he" and not an "it" and He teaches, feels, rejoices and is sad.

  The HS is not just God's HS, but also Jesus's:

  2Corinthians3:12-18

  12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect a the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

  Notice that only Christ can take it away( the veil) and that anyone that turns to the Lord (Christ) has the veil taken away, now notice that "the Lord is Spirit" and the "Lord, who is THE spirit".

  In all of Paul's writings he makes it clear that The Lord = Jesus Christ.
• 

  VoidEater

  This Holy Spirit as person sounds rather animistic to me...but then, considering how I was raised, I'm not surprised!

  There does seem to be a similarity, though, the way Trinitarian thought speaks about the Holy Spirit and how Native American thought speaks about the natural world (wind, earth, water...).
• 

  designs

  You can see the philosophical redundancy that these early Bishops got a little caught on. Oooops back to the drawing board.

  !We can't sound Jewish, we can't sound to Greek! Oh my!
• 

  javig

  how can a force(HS) be "grieving" according to the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

  ephesians 4:30 "Also, do not be grieving God’s holy spirit"....

  how exaclty a "force" can feel a grieve? please someone explain...
• 

  garyneal

  I have to admit, I have had difficulty proving to myself that the Holy Spirit is a person. I still believe it but I do wonder where this comes from. The only research I did on it showed some verses where it states 'the Holy Spirit He' but when I compared it to the original Greek I found, "the Holy Spirit, It." At the time, I was more concerned with getting to know the REAL Jesus so I did more research on Him and His deity than I did on the Holy Spirit. While I believe the Holy Spirit is indeed a person, I can see how it can be considered 'okay' to think of Him as being energy or maybe a force that gives God the Father His Omnipresence. Granted, though, this is modalism which is rejected by trinitarians. As you just illustrated, how can one grieve a 'force' like electricity or lie to a force as illustrated in Acts 5:3,4. Better to think of the Holy Spirit as something that while it is not like a person as we can comprehend, He has a 'personality.'
• 

  designs

  Javig, when these early Bishops were developing their new idea of god they said he was everywhere, so in effect they had a 'person' everywhere.

  So now they had anything else attached to god everywhere as well- Holy Spirit, Jesus by means of this de facto hypostatic union. With Jesus its interesting since they wrote him as having both a physical body, 5'6", and yet he transcends this body to also be everywhere, one part flys around inside himself. As VoidEater observed- very animistic, like many native peoples believe.

  As the evolution of Christianity is taking place one positive offshoot of this everywhere god idea is that Believers are starting to become 'green' in their thinking- if God is in the water, sky and earth, we better take care of god.

  Christianity is moving away from the Fundamentalists literal interpretation of the earth being burned with fire . People's sense of goodness and stewardship will rise up over bad and destructive philosophies. Next, the death of Hell.
• 

  PSacramento

  garyneal,

  Its not about the HS being a person, its about him having the qualities of a person, personality, and not just an "active" impersonal ( unfeeling and uncaring) force.

  You don't have to beleive that the HS is a person in the physical sense, but a person in the "personal qualities" sense.
• 

  mouthy

  Havent read all the replies.But I believe the HOLY SPIRIT is our Teacher...
  If we invite that Spirit to show us error, sounds to me that a lot of you
  have it within,,,, otherwise how did you know the WT was wrong?

  With me I had to take a kick up the rear from the WT ,to land in the Teachers class.,
  I then enrolled in the School of life.Learning every day ,to not think I know it all
  must wait till I understand why .I dont yet KNOW all,sometimes doubt,but at least
  I dont feel I should be out teaching others ,THAT teacher( HOLY SPIRIT) is free to all
• 

  undercover

  The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
• 

  snowbird

  Its not about the HS being a person, its about him having the qualities of a person, personality, and not just an "active" impersonal ( unfeeling and uncaring) force.

  Yay!

  You don't have to beleive that the HS is a person in the physical sense, but a person in the "personal qualities" sense.

  Yay! again.

  No, I'm not a Trinitarian.

  Sylvia