The 'other sheep' - Isn't it so obvious that Jesus is talking about gentiles?

by jambon1 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Perry

  And before the end comes, both Israel and the house of Judah become one house again (Ezekiel).

  This prophecy was fulfilled 60 years ago when the nation of Israel was formed. Both kingdoms were reunited after nearly three thousand years passed.

  Absolutely amazing fulfillment.

  Ez. 37:

  21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

  22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

  23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

  24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

  25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
• 

  Larsinger58

  Sorry, but the sheep are all Christians.

  Reflect on the parable of the 10 slaves sent out to do business. Each given a mina coin to do business with while the Lord was away to get kingly power, remeaning a period of time prior to the second coming.

  One of the slaves only returned what he was given, not even putting it into a bank to draw interest. He just buried it and returned it. So the master pronounced him an evil slave and gave that mina to the slave that had a 10-fold increase. So that is what this is about. Even though the evil slave was condemned, Christ is talking about the faithful anointed among Jehovah's witnesses when he says, "Have no fear, LITTLE FLOCK!" Then when he says I have "other sheep" not of this fold, he is referring to the other 9 slaves who have gathered in his sheep.

  See? Other sheep not of this fold. Other sheep meaning other followers of Christ.

  So in essence, Christ takes out the wheat from the weeds, the good sheep from the goats in the WTS and then leads them to the secret organization of his "other sheep."

  There are lots of secret cults in operation, some of them belonging to Christ. This is what is meant that God would provide a place in the "wilderness" for the woman who must flee from Satan when he is cast into the earth. God hides them in secret socities.

  So when a witness who is faithful realizes the GB and the WTS are out if they pay attention, they can be led into the secret society world of the largest secret society of all, the slave that had a 10-fold increase. Now so close to Armageddon most of the faithful witnesses are now part of this secret society of the slave with the 10-fold increase.

  So basically, that is who the "other sheep" are. The other sheep gathered by these other nine slaves. The evil slave is the WTS and their coin is given to another slave, meaning they are transferred to another flock where Christ is gathering his sheep. But Christ abandons the goats within the WTS, the stubborn ones who still think Jehovah is supporting the WTS.

  This is actually happening. Of course, I could actually show up some of the people in the secret society and how some of it works, but that would be inappropriate, wouldn't it? So all I can say is that there are secret societies within the WTS with secret members and the WTS knows they exist and fight against them. That is what a lot of the subliminal artwork in the WTS is about...

  LS

  LS
• 

  Chalam

  The 'other sheep' - Isn't it so obvious that Jesus is talking about gentiles?

  Yep!

  Romans 1:16 (New International Version)

  16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

  Acts 13:45-47 (New International Version)

  45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying.

  46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
  " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
  that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

  Romans 11:11 (New International Version)

  11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

  Blessings, Stephen
• 

  Perry

  There are lots of secret cults in operation, some of them belonging to Christ. This is what is meant that God would provide a place in the "wilderness" for the woman who must flee from Satan when he is cast into the earth. God hides them in secret socities.

  That just doesn't square with scripture. A Christian has no need to hide because it would defeat his very purpose of living.

  John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

  Luke 11:33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
• 

  No Longer Held Captive

  Whatever, this is all still future, and I know the wbts dreamed up something and said they were the two witnesses, but if so, then where were the miracles, and who saw them, and when did the UN kill them?

  Everything the wbts lay claim to are still future events to be sure.

  The two witnesses are from Revelation 11, and Daniel, Revelation, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21..they are a still future and all fall in to one time frame.
• 

  Truthexplorer

  Excellent post Jambon,

  The scriptures are clearly talking about the gentiles

  http://perimeno.ca/Other%20Sheep.htm

  TE
• 

  Watkins

  The evil slave is the WTS and their coin is given to another slave, meaning they are transferred to another flock where Christ is gathering his sheep. But Christ abandons the goats within the WTS, the stubborn ones who still think Jehovah is supporting the WTS. This is actually happening. Of course, I could actually show up some of the people in the secret society and how some of it works, but that would be inappropriate, wouldn't it? So all I can say is that there are secret societies within the WTS with secret members and the WTS knows they exist and fight against them. That is what a lot of the subliminal artwork in the WTS is about...

  The only way the wt has anything to do with bible prophecy is when it happens to them - but they do not and never have had anything to do with the accomplishment, or fulfillment, of anything Biblical except as a 'type' - that would be the 'what-not-to-do type'. They, like every [other] religious 'organization' which claims to speak for God and Christ, carry a heavier burden in judgement. Whatever real evil exists in the hearts of the people involved in the purposeful deceptions of religion - that evil will be done away with. Everyone under religion's rule will be freed, at some point, with reality and truth, and will then be able to make an informed choice. There are 'goats and sheep' everywhere, always has been - look around.

  That whole cult is a 'secret society'! So you are saying the leaders and the elite within the wt org. are divided and actually "fighting" against each other - is this 'spiritual warfare' or the 'theocratic' kind? Why would you think it's "inappropriate" to expose what's evil and false? That's what this board is about, friend! We don't want to be lied to anymore - to cover up a lie and not expose it as a warning to others is just... wrong - it's actually hiding the truth and no better than that special 'Evolved Truth' touted by any brand of religion!

  The SA is not, imo, proof that the wt is fighting some internal battle - but it does prove someone in the art dept. is poking the 'big boys' with a pointy stick. It certainly doesn't prove a concerted upheaval. Unless your 'knowledge' of those 'secret societies' within the tower hold significant proof otherwise. Does it? Why the hestation to out the evil, is what I don't get? It's your obligation to speak the truth if you're Christ's follower, Larsinger. So spill those truthful beans!
• 

  No Longer Held Captive

  They have deviated in a great way with their teachings which not only have hurt so many, but blinded so many too. They say they have the truth? but can any man have absolute truth, and besides, the light only gets brighter on or near the time of the end when ones acting with insight will stand up and impart this to many. I also believe that the mountain house of jehovah is also still future, when worship of him becomes established above all others, and it has something to do with the coming of the last two witnesses when they will lead many back to Jehovah.

  The jws slam all other religions for what they do, yet the wbts have acted in a more wicked and evil way, because all they do, they do saying they do it in Gods name. And apostasy is what happens at religions centre, not at it fringe.

  WBTS ARE JUST ANOTHER MAINSTREAM RELIGION. SATAN HAS DONE WELL, EVEN FOOLING PEOPLE INTO ONE OF HIS RELIGIONS USING GODS VERY NAME. YOU CAN SEE THAT EVIL REFLECTED IN THEIR TEACHINGS AND PHILOSOPHIES. THEY ARE JUST NOT IN HARMONY WITH THE BIBLE. AS FOR 1914, IF THE AVERAGE AGE THEN WAS 30-40, THEN THAT GENERATION SHOULD HAVE BEEN READY TO PASS AWAY FROM BETWEEN 1964-1974...MAYBE THIS IS WHERE THEY GOT THEIR 1975 IDEA FROM? AND WHEN IT DIDNT HAPPEN, THEY JUST PERPETUATED THE LIE.

  True worship is yet to be established, but by the two witness elite, who stand before Jehovah and speak his word of truth and life
• 

  Cold Steel

  Although most Christians agree that it's the gentiles being referred to, the Mormons have another view. In the Book of Mormon, Jesus appears to other groups of people, some in ancient America. Jesus is quoted in the Book of Mormon: "And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of of whom I said, 'Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.' And they [the Jews] understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching. And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice–that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost. But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me." (3 Nephi 15:21-24)

  The early church scholar Origen noted: "Clement, the disciple of the Apostles, recalls those whom the Greeks designate as antichthonians [dwellers on the other side of the earth], and other parts of the earth's sphere [or circuit] which cannot be reached by anyone from our regions, and from which none of the inhabitants dwelling there is able to get to us; he calls these areas "worlds" when he says: 'The Ocean is not to be crossed by men, but those worlds which lie on the other side of it are governed by the same ordinances [lit. dispositions] of a guiding and directing God as these.'" (see Origen, Peri Archon (De Principiis) II, 3, 6, in PG 11:194.)

  Related to this, the Restored Church of God (once known simply as Church of God) has a similar interpretation. They don't accept the Book of Mormon, but they also feel the reference was to lost tribes of the House of Israel. According to their website:

  We are left then, with the “other sheep…not of this fold.” Throughout the Bible, God refers to the people of Israel as His sheep. There is no indication that this is referring to the Gentiles. Those other sheep are the other tribes of Israel. We find in Matthew 10:6 Christ’s instruction to His disciples, “But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The apostle James directly addressed the “lost tribes of Israel” in James 1:1, “…to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad…” The Jews also made the same reference in John 7:35: “…will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles?”

  Israel was one united nation until the reign of King Rehoboam. Under Jeroboam, ten tribes separated from Rehoboam to form a new nation called Israel. The remaining tribes with Rehoboam formed a nation that was known as the kingdom of Judah. They have not been united since.

  John 10:16 does give a happy, glorious conclusion. Christ said, “…them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” In Ezekiel 37:21-28, we find a very inspiring and detailed prophecy of the final reunion of the tribes of Israel, with David as their resurrected King under the Master Shepherd, Jesus Christ.

  In the end, these seem to be the only views that I can locate. Certainly the "Gentiles" interpretation is the most accepted one. These other observations also are fascinating.
• 

  stapler99

  It is an obvious explanation, but one that is new to me.

  It is remarkable how JW's claim to be spreading the clear waters of truth, in contrast to the obtuse theology of Christendom; yet so much of what they believe relies on dubious parallels between different parts of the Bible. The doctrine of the other sheep/great crowd is a case in point.