by jahrule 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
FWTW, I did not read the original poster as an apologist.
One point is particularly well-made: It is indeed quite the incredible idea that such a widespread set of ancient literature could have at one time had YHWH all over, and then were successfully expunged so well that no single credible example now exists.
Basically, the so-called NW Bible Translation committee WANTED the name Jehovah in the NT - and POOF, there it was.
JWoods,
What amazes me is how they (the JW's) can say that the Bible is the "inerrant" word of God in one breath and say that the tetragramatton was removed from ALL the NT works, ALL of them, by apostate scribes !
What amazes me is how they (the JW's) can say that the Bible is the "inerrant" word of God in one breath and say that the tetragramatton was removed from ALL the NT works, ALL of them, by apostate scribes !
Presumably the very same apostate scribes who later formed the approved bible canon and got rid of such apocrypha as Judith and the Gospel of Judas...ya shoore...
it boggles the mind...
The scriptures 2 Tim 3:16 "All scriptures is inspired by God and benefitial for teachings, reproving and setting things straight" was not in reference to the NT.
The New Testament didn't exist at the time that was written. There were some of the letters of disciples floating around but that phrase is refering to the Torah or the writings of the Old Testament especially the 5 books of Moses as they are called. That phrase never was talking about the writings we now know as the New Testament.
Early Christians still held the Torah as the most important in worshipping their God.
quote :
"are there any jehovah's witnesses on this site who can asnwer my question? if not, where will i find them? "
******************************************8
I am a witness for Jehovah
I became so by going out from men's organisation , to follow Christ
I don't have answer for your questions , I know only what I can learn from God's word
every thing happens is with God's will
if the OT has God's Name in it , then means it was God's will to be so
if the NT doesn't have God's fully Name in it , then it was accordingly to His will (indeed the short form "Yah" exists in comopsite words/names )
BUT why did God proceeded this way ?
I find in His word this declaration : Proverbs 25
2. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter
........we can see here that God's way of sharing the knowledge in His word , was by "concealing" the matters/things
Once again we read in His word : Job 33
14. For God does speak—now one way, now another—
though man may not perceive it.
........again we see that God could do that : to explicitely use His Name in the hebrew writings , while in the christian writings He did not used it
Did Jesus used God's Name ? the scriptures says yes ; but we see that the inspired records could be written without a directly using of the Name.
BUT does Jesus agree that His Father's Name is YHWH/ Jehovah ?
-- YES !
By saying :"Your word is truth" , then Father's words in Exodus 3 are true and trustworthy
15. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
ASV
So , using the Name of God (even today ) is accordingly to His will
WHY does God proceeds like that with us (writing His word concealing the matters) ?
I find that He has the right to do so , as also we have the right/or obligation to manifest all our faith in Him
In this way we can show / prove our trust/faith in/toward Him
indeed, there are "faith" and "trust" He requires from us , and He gives to us plenty of situations to prove these
friendly,
wantingtruth.
The bias of the NWT in regards to its use of "Jehovah" in its Greek Scriptures is shown in a piece I wrote at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/Translating_with_prejudice.pdf
Doug
Welcome jahrule!
Thus, there are about 24,000 anuscripts of the NT in existence, none of which contain the name Jehovah. Yet, how could it have been removed from so many manuscripts?
Quite simply is wasn't! The NWT is a false and heretical translation.
Inserting "Jehovah" brings contradiction which is not there when the correct word is used ("Lord").
Consider for example
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'
13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
So the NWT claims "Jehovah" is the correct word in the New Testament, citing Joel 2:32
However, look at the preceding verses!
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him
It is quite clear that the name to call upon to be saved is Jesus, not "Jehovah".
There are many verse which agree, one name only to call upon and it is Jesus.
10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 He is
" 'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.' 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
You need to examine every single thing the WT have ever taught you, the whole pack of cards is about to come down.
I am not writing this to argue. I agree that God is not a trinity, there is no immortal soul, God's name is jehovah, etc. But I see a fundamental error in your doctrine you need to address.
Start with a new bible, the NWT is not the most accurate but the most heretical bible in existence.
Plenty of decent ones for free here BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions ...
Blessings,
Stephen
I have three translations which have restored the Divine Name in the New Testament.
Namely, the NWT,
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm
And, "The Scriptures",
http://www.eliyah.com/thescriptures/
And, "THE BOOK OF YAHWEH".
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Yahweh-Assorted-Colors/dp/189096722X
Well, in substance, the God in the New Testament, and the God in the Old Testament are the same God.
Therefore, the God in the New Testament is also "Jehovah/YHWH", IMO.
And Jesus is also that God ("I AM", but he is not "the Father").
When they saw that Jesus, they also saw Jehovah.
In the New Testament, Jesus is the leading part.
Therefore, I think that there is no name of the father there.
Well, in my opinion, I think that the Divine Name pronounced like "Adonai."
That is, the "Lord."
Therefore, IMO, they wrote it as "Kyrios."
possible
The concept of "Trinity" means that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are not different entities, but are one God. The Trinity-God the Father , God the Son , and God the Holy Spirit are one.
To better understand the Trinity, let’s first consider the transformation of water. Water is a liquid, but when its temperature falls below 0° C, the water will turn into ice, a solid. When the water is boiled, it turns into vapor, a gas. Water, ice, and vapor have different names and different forms, but their substance is the same: H2O.
It is similar to when an actor in a monodrama plays three different characters-a father, a son, and a grandson-all having different voices. Although there are three different voices and three different roles, there is only one actor.
Like this, even though God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit may look different, have different names, and have appeared during different ages, the three are one God. The Trinity reveals that God administrates His salvation work while playing three roles.
For six thousand years God has carried out His salvation work in each age: age of the Father, age of the Son, and age of the Holy Spirit.
God the Father, Jehovah = God the Son, Jesus Let’s confirm that God the Father, Jehovah, and God the Son, Jesus, are one God.
Isaiah prophesied about Jesus as follows:
Isaiah 9:6 - 6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is referred to as the "Son," but the Bible revealed that the son would be called "Mighty God," and "Everlasting Father." Clearly this prophecy is about Jesus Christ. But why is Jesus Christ is being called "Everlasting Father"? We all know that in the Old Testament, only God the Father Jehovah is the only one known as the Everlasting Father? Clearly we can understand that Jehovah is the very Jesus who is prophecied to come in flesh in the age of the Son. Apostle Paul clearly understood that Jesus’ nature was that of God the Father, as follows:
Philippians 2:5-7 - 5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
Romans 9:5 - 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Why would Apostle Paul say that Christ Jesus being the very nature God? Clearly we can understand that Jehovah came down in flesh as Jesus Christ to set us the example of how to follow God.
John 13:15-17 - 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
Christ is the perfect example of how to be a child of God. He took the nature of being a servant. That's why if we follow Christ example, which is God's example Himself, we can enter the kingdom of heaven without any fail. Clearly Christ is God over all, humbling Himself in human likeness.
We can also confirm that God the Father, Jehovah, and God the Son, Jesus, are one God by studying the history of the Creation.
Isaiah 44:24 - 24 Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, the maker of all things; who alone stretched out the heavens, who did spread forth the earth by myself
God the Father-Jehovah-said that He had created everything by Himself, but Jesus said that it was He who had created the world.
Colossians 1:15-16 - 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Then if Jehovah and Jesus are not the same, why do we only have one Earth? Should we have two Earth if Jehovah and Jesus created a separate Earth? The fact the we only have one Earth is because Jehovah and Jesus are one. That's why Jesus is the image of the invisible God the Father as the Bible testified, the very Jehovah in flesh.
The Bible states that God the Father, Jehovah, created the world, but it also says that God the Son, Jesus, created the world. Therefore, God the Father [Jehovah] and God the Son [Jesus] are clearly one God.
Isaiah 44:6 - 6 Thus saith Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no God.
God the Father said, "I am the first and I am the last."
Revelation 22:12-16 - 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
God the Son also said, "I am the First and the Last." Therefore, God the Father, Jehovah, and God the Son, Jesus, are one God.
God the Father = God the Holy Spirit Let’s confirm that God the Father, Jehovah, and God the Holy Spirit are one God. In the Bible, there are frequent references to "the (Holy) Spirit." The Bible teaches us that God is spirit, and that God is holy. Thus, the spirit of God is holy, too. We call the spirit of God "the Holy Spirit."
John 4:24 - God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.
Apostle Paul wrote-in the book of Corinthians-that God is the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:10-11 - 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
The (Holy) Spirit could search even the deep things of God (the Father), the things which no one could know. If "the Holy Spirit" and "the spirit of God" were different, how could the Holy Spirit possibly know the thoughts of God? Only the spirit of God-the Holy Spirit-knows the thoughts of God. Therefore, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are one.
2 Timothy 3:16 - 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
2 Peter 1:20-21 - 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
The Bible is "God-breathed" and it was written by the prophets, "as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." This clearly testifies that God the Father, Jehovah, is the Holy Spirit.
The Bible = God-breathed book The Bible = A book written by prophets being carried along by the Holy Spirit Therefore the Holy Spirit is God.
Therefore God the Holy Spirit and God the Father are one God.
God the Son = God the Holy Spirit Let’s confirm that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one God.
Isaiah 9:6 - 6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 14:25-26 - 25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
The Son is the Counselor, and the Counselor is the Holy Spirit, so we can easily conclude that the Son, Jesus, is the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not separate, but are one. God the Father-Jehovah, God the Son-Jesus, and God the Holy Spirit-Ahnsahnghong, are one God.
The Holy Spirit Is a Personal Being The Holy Spirit is not a kind of energy or an electric wave. The Holy Spirit is a personal being who has feelings (Rom. 15:30), who grieves (Eph. 4:30), who speaks (Rev. 2:7), who groans (Rom. 8:26), who intercedes (Rom. 8:26), who testifies about God (John 15:26), who teaches (John 14:26), who gives commands (Rom. 8:29), who keeps us from preaching in certain places (Acts 16:6-7), who thinks (Rom. 8:27), and who has been blasphemed (Matt. 12: 31-32).
John 14:26, NASB "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
The Holy Spirit is referred to as "He," meaning that the Holy Spirit is a personal being.
Matthew 28:18-20 - 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
If the Holy Spirit was not a man with character, but merely an invisible, active power-like an electric wave, or energy-how would it be possible for the Holy Spirit to have a name? The fact that the Holy Spirit has a name proves that the Holy Spirit is a man, with character.
God commanded us to be baptized in the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Spirit, because He would administrate His salvation work with three names (of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit) according to each age. By calling out the three names through which God showed His authority, God’s prophets are to baptize people and commemorate God.
God’s name was "Jehovah" when He played the role of the Father, and it was "Jesus" when He worked as the Son. Then, how should we call upon God when He is working as the Holy Spirit?
The name of the Holy Spirit is Ahnsahnghong.
Since God told us to "baptize (people) in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," we need to understand that the "Trinity"-God the Father [Jehovah], God the Son [Jesus], and God the Holy Spirit [Ahnsahnghong]-are one God. By this understanding we can receive abundant blessing and we can participate in God’s administration of salvation, which has been carried out through the Trinity.
