by AwSnap 21 Replies latest jw friends
You mean some JWs utter themselves against the healthcare plan?
All I can say, is that 100 % of us Europeans shake our heads in utter disbelief at how anyone can be against a universal healthcare plan. Our countries have had it for decades and we haven't died out yet. Just strange how the cowboy nation manage to get upset at such a fundamental thing as health security for all.
Pallemar...."recepi for abortion in the bibel". Use spellcheck before posting. Your comments will look more credible if you do. As far as what the bible says about when life begins. Try Genesis 2 v6,7.
Pallamer Could you please tell me which translation you quoted Numbers from
Not only do they want babies to die they're going to use your tax dollars to make it happen.
LOL...what crazy jokes we hear from people!
Bwwaaahhhhhh.....tax dollars going to all those planned abortions women are just gaga to have. How scary to think that people actually believe that tripe. That's the equivalent of saying that we have millions of men just lining the streets going gaga for vasectomies when a great many of them equate the family jewels as just that - jewels to be remain intact! How antiquated the thinking that women have no rights and no sense to make decisions about themselves on their own - yep, even those tax paying women out there - I think they make up about 50% of the working public now. Let's take away their right to say where their tax dollars go, how about that?
Novel idea!
How about all those tax dollars that go into the pot covering everything? That way, if you choose NOT to utilize any of the services offered you don't have to - those that choose to, can avail themselvs of the healthcare they need.
Saying Democrats or Liberals want babies to die is moronic - the offshoot would be to say that all Conservatives or Republicans want to reduce women to nothing more than breeders - something they would vehemently argue against (at least in word).
I'd be more interested in the thoughtful, intelligent discussions of people who fight for the welfare of the kids already here and who understand the importance of population control as it relates to poverty, water, food and shelter resources along with the dynamics of socialization and who might start real change in those areas' by educating the young people of the USA, where teenage pregnancy is the highest in the world.
Lack of education and available birth control has shown to lead to a higher number of abortions statistically...sammieswife.
Alright! We're discussing politics instead of religion! Or wait, we're dicussing both...this should be interesting.
Anyway, first observation: like the OldHippie said, people in Europe have had universal health care for years and seem to be doing well. And there are still rich people in Europe, even though they have to pay extra taxes.
Second, re: the welfare argument...is it still true you can make more on welfare than at McDonalds? If I had a family to feed, I might stay on it as well. Some people don't have the same opportunities as other. Yes, yes, I know that thought will incense some, I had a college friend that got mad when I told her that. She got a full scholarship to college for playing the violin. So she thought anyone could/should do it. I agreed with her to a degree - I think you can work REALLY hard and try to make things happen - but then I asked her the following series of questions:
Me: How did you learn to play the violin. Where you a natural?
Her: Ha! No silly, Greenie, I had lessons!
Me: Oh! And where did you take those lessons?
Her: A tutor.
Me: Oh, and how many years did you take lessons?
Her: Oh, since as long as I can remember.
Me: Ah, ok. And your violins? Where did you get them?
Her: My parents bought them for me of course!
Me: Oh, and I suppose they paid for the lessons, too?
Her: Yep!
Me: So let me get this straight, you were able to 1. have an instrument to play; and 2. take private lessons for years in order to get good enough to get a full ride to college, because your parents paid for it?
Her: (Slowly realizing my point that there'd be no way an inner city kid's parents could afford all of this) Right...
Me: Still think you guys had the same opportunities to "make things happen?"
No answer.
OKAY! I'm off my soapbox!
Actually, the scripture that pallemar uses proves that an unborn fetus is not viewed as the same as a human being:
When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows , the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.
In other words, if the woman loses the baby but she herself isn't seriously injured or dies herself, there would be a fine imposed on the person responsible for the miscarriage.
23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. (exo 21)
So if the woman dies following the miscarriage, then the punishment was alot more than just a fine. You had to give "life for life". So this scripture cannot be used to show that miscarriages or abortions are the same as taking a human life.
hmmm... altho i consider myself a centrist
i will always vote to uphold "the choice"
even tho i never was in a postion to believe
i could terminate a pregnancy of mine...
but i got to decide that for myself...
if men got pregnant,
abortion would be a free,
convenient and unquestioned
Actually, the scripture that pallemar uses proves that an unborn fetus is not viewed as the same as a human being:
Yeah Mary Try explaining that to a JC as I tried to when I was defending my decision to support my 14 year old daughters decision to have an abortion after she had been raped. I asked one of the clowns what he would have done ( he was very uncomfortable with this question) and he said he would of made her have the baby and then adopted it out (disowned it) Yeah lets put the girl through more trauma. You read propaganda in the WT about how loving and understanding the Elders are..not my experience
sorry for being away, i think it was the american standart bible i use.
not sure, it was a online bible of some kind.
and my english is bad i know, sorry.
i hope some of the understanding is getting to you :)
personaly, i'm not against abortion, i think a child have a better life, if it is wanted, and not a suprise, before the monnie and the time for the child are there.
etik and love, is something you have, if you can spare it.
