My brief "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

by garyneal 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  garyneal

  My wife called and told me she was going to a book study but my daughter did not want to go. Could I come pick her up my wife asked me. Sure, I went over as soon as I could.

  When I got there, they were discussing encouragement and building others up. I decided to join in since they had only 3 paragraphs before completing the topic for the night. The following things came up:

  The body of Christ was mentioned and the scripture in Romans 12 was referenced. I've seen this scripture before and my wife asked what it meant. The elder's response, "We are all part of the same congregation." WHAT?!?! I guess he could've meant the 'congregation' consisting of all Christians but knowing the witnesses it can only mean all Jehovah's Witnesses. At work we have a daily devotional group that consists of a Methodist who leads it, a Wesleyan who is very vocal in his praise of the Lord, along with others (including myself). We've seen this verse and never applied it to one religious group (how can we?).

  After the study, the elder told me about the witnesses involvement within the hospitals and he extoled their virtues. He spoke of the hospital liason committee though he was not sure of the name of it. Imagine his surprise when I was actually able to name it. He told me of a sister who the doctors were 'forcing blood' on and how they intervened for her and comforted her. I just nodded my head. The elder's wife told me how some of the 'mean doctors' would tell their patients that they 'are going to die.' Presumably for not accepting blood. Again, I just nodded my head.

  Wow... Not sure what to say. Do any of the (ex)elders here have a high regard for the liason committee? Do they offer comfort to patients in hospitals (kind of like a priest)? I understand that they tend to lurk outside of patients' rooms to ensure that no blood enters that room. What are your experiences with or on the liason committee?
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  Chalam

  From what I have read here, they just wanna make sure you die and get your picture in the WT hall of fame.

  Of them and those who listen it is written

  2 Peter 3:16 (New International Version)

  16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

  Isaiah 28:13 (New Century Version)

  13 So the words of the Lord will be,
  "A command here, a command there.
  A rule here, a rule there.
  A little lesson here, a little lesson there."
  They will fall back and be defeated;
  they will be trapped and captured.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  dgp

  Correct me if I am wrong. I understand that a witness is expected to abstain from blood, which, in their point of view, means they are not to eat blood sausage, for example, but they are also not expected to accept a blood transfusion. I understand that religions have to set guidelines of behavior, and I understand that all religions want their members to be saved. But I fail to see why a liaison committee is necessary.

  If a person wants to accept a transfusion and take his or her chances at disfellowshipment, that is his or her business. The person knows he or she might get disfellowshipped if someone finds out about the transfusion. The person is also the sole owner of his or her own life, and is the sole responsible for the chances he or she might take with God, Jehovah or the Spaghetti Monster. There would be no disfellowshipment if nobody knew. Which means that Jehovah doesn't see everything after all and if the elders were not there the fun of disfellowshipment would be lost the elders feel they need to be there. Is the liaison committee really there to help, or is it there to a) prevent the person from accepting blood, or b) making sure the transgression is documented and they can proceed to disfellowship someone. Is this Christian love?

  Picture two witness parents with a two-year old child who might die without a transfusion. The parents would refuse to the transfusion. The liaison comittee would be there to make sure no blood were given. And, WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD? His or her opinion would not matter, thank you, even if the life in danger would be his or hers. Replace "two-year old child" with "unconscious 67 year old" and the moral problem is the same: someone else gets to decide whether another person lives or dies. And the liaison comittee is there to make sure they take the one road that makes survival least likely.
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  Doug Mason

  I provide my views on the HLCs in my Study at:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Loyalty_Test.pdf

  It is my view that no member of an HLC would be able to know whether a patient is receiving the part of blood that is forbidden or permitted by the Governing Body of JWs, unless they obtain information. And that information cannot be obtained legally when legislation exists that enshrines patient confidentiality.

  Except that the WTS says their right to know is greater than the laws made by human governments.

  Doug
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  dgp

  Straight from "In Search of Christian Freedom", from the chapter titled "The Misuse of Disfellowshipment", page 353:

  "Of a quite different nature, but illustrating the same attitude, is the case in 1982 of George West, an elderly witness associated with the Maynard, Massachussetts, congregation of Jehova's witnesses. He developed bone cancer and in time deteriorated to the point of requiring hospitalization as a terminal case; his head was supported in a cage arrangement since his neck bones could no longer bear the weight.

  Local elders heard that George West had submitted to a blood transfusion and made several attempts to try to talk with him, in spite of his extreme condition and against his wife's wishes. Finally, one evening they succeeded in getting in to see her husband and under interrogation he acknowledged having accepted the transfusion. His reason? His children from a previous marriage had heard he was dying and called to let him know they were coming from the Midwest to visit him at the hospital. He had not seen them since childhood. He decided to take the transfusion to extend his life a little longer in order to be reunited with his children.

  The elders disfellowshipped George West only days before he died".

  A footnote to this paragraph appears in the book: "These facts were printed in a letter to the editorial column of the Concord Monitor of December 8, 1984. No one did, or could, refute them".

  I speculate that the children were not Jehovah's witnesses, and that could have been the reason why Mr. West had not seen them. I don't know for sure, of course. But, do we see Christian love in action here?
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  moshe

  I asked one of those committee guys a couple years ago this question- " will a blood transfusion save the life of a starving man?" Total silence, then he said "I never tought about that before" He finally admitted the answer was, no, and in the process he was admitting that a blood transfusion didn't violate the OT Bible prohibitions on eating blood, because a blood transfusion was not the same as eating blood. I then asked him why blood transfusions are used in Jewish hospitals to save lives- wouldn't the Jews avoid them if they violated their OT laws? again he said , " I never thought about that, before". He is probably still thinking, but not willing to admit publically at the KH that the WT blood transfusion rules are are not from God but from the devil.
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  dgp

  One more thing. Gary, you wrote about "offer comfort to patients in hospitals (kind of like a priest)". I am afraid the answer is a clear no. And the elder and his wife are my source on this.

  Also, you wrote "He told me of a sister who the doctors were 'forcing blood' on and how they intervened for her and comforted her. I just nodded my head. The elder's wife told me how some of the 'mean doctors' would tell their patients that they 'are going to die.' Presumably for not accepting blood.".

  What the elder told you is "we prevented the woman from accepting a transfusion". How did the doctor "force blood" on the patient? "Mean doctors"? Granted, doctors are far from perfect, but I am sure that they usually tell the truth when they tell patients they "are going to die" if they won't accept a transfusion, and I am sure they tend to see things from a strictly medical point of view, as in "you lost a liter and a half of blood. You'll die if you won't accept a transfusion", and I am sure that many doctors would cringe at letting a person die because of religious reasons. You have to know that, in my information, rules about how to deal with Jehovah's witness patients vary, but in many countries the doctor asks for a piece of paper to be signed in order to be released from any responsibility regarding the death of the patient.

  I believe the blood issue is one of the areas where it should be easiest to prove the Watchtower dead wrong. By the way, the blood substitutes and fractions are always blood. Hemopure, I understand, comes from bovine blood. Maybe witnesses can take it because Jehovah didn't supposedly ban "bovine blood", only "blood".
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  hamsterbait

  There is a thread on here started by jeanniebeanz, About three years ago where the new blood cards now have a clause saying that the card carrier consents to the elders being GIVEN ACCESS TO THE MEDICAL RECORDS of the patient.

  Oh hayawllp me - ah caint think why this should be??!!

  HB
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  dgp

  So sad, Hamsterbait. What should be more private than your own ailments...
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  Tuesday

  About three years ago where the new blood cards now have a clause saying that the card carrier consents to the elders being GIVEN ACCESS TO THE MEDICAL RECORDS of the patient.

  I don't think this really matters, in order for anyone to get medical records a card like that won't hold up at a Doctor's office they're going to need a signed HIPAA form in order to get a single thing. That HIPAA law is a b*tch even other Doctor's offices have trouble getting medical records, there's no way an elder is going to walk into a Doctor's office holding a small card and getting a single thing.