Why do the Churches teach Adam was created perfect?

by acolytes 44 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  tenyearsafter

  acolytes,

  I can see and agree with several of your thoughts on Adam. As to Adam's original perfection, I can use the example of Jesus to illustrate the difference between physical and moral perfection. Most people who believe in Jesus and the biblical accounts would agree that he was perfect, however he was tempted several times by Satan shortly after his baptism. If Jesus would have no ability to sin because of his perfection, what would have been the point to the temptations? The angels were "perfect", yet many fell to sin starting with Satan. If free moral will comes into play, I think that a being can be perfect yet still make a choice to act that could result in displeasing God. That very act could also be a conscious disregard for the very God that they formally had submitted to. If a person isn't a believer, than none of this makes any sense!

  As to "you will surely die this day", I would suggest that this could easily be read as the slow process of death began that moment Adam partook of the fruit. This would be similar to the phrase commonly used today, "the beginning of the end".

  Just some thoughts...

  TYA
• 

  ssn587

  If one believe romans 5:12, sin is passed on through dna, and if one takes it to the logical conclusion, we inherit it, it is an intrical part of us. So we are to be punished for being ourselves???
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  PSacramento

  If one choose to believe that the punishment for the first (original) sin is a loss of immortality, then the fact that were are all mortal shows that we inherited this "original sin".

  I one choose to NOT believe in original sin, or any sin, than its a moot point.

  Sin is doing what is wrong (what we know to be wrong) and knowing thatis its wrong and choosing to do it anyway.

  It is a sin to got out an premediate the death of someone and see it through, it is not a sin to have to kill someone when we have NO OTHER choice to save oursevles or a loved one.

  It is not a sin for two people who love each other to have sex, it is a sin for a person to pay to have sex with another ( unless of course neither person things they are doing antyhgin wrong).

  A sinful nature is when we do what is wrong, knowing what that it is wrong.

  Now one can now argue that "ignorance is blessed" and indeed it is, IF one is TRULY "ignorant" of right and wrong.
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  Chalam

  Hi Acolytes :)

  Without the mathmatical gymnastics of "A day for a year"Adam did not die on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.

  There are several types of death. We think firstly of the first (physical) death but this relates to the spiritual excommunication with God (spiritual death). That happened to Adam and Eve Genesis 3:23

  According to my understanding of the account Adam did nothing wrong.Mans inhumanity to man and the senceless tragity in the world are fully accountable to God- Blamming a serpent Adam or Eve makes no rational sence-

  If you have kids and you tell them not to eat something because it is bad for them, but they do it would you say they had done something wrong or just made a choice?

  Now the reasons for a loving God being accountable for such injustice is beyound my comprehension.

  If it is possible and you can clarify my thinking and offer a viewpoint I have overlooked I would appreciate it.

  I have concluded the story is nothing more than good fiction.

  Some think the story is an allegory, other like myself see it as more literal.

  However you view it, if you are interested in the message of salvation then this early part of the story is something to get an understanding of.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  WTWizard

  So they can claim that mankind was originally perfect, that Adam's sin caused us all to be born into sin, so they can create the "need(??)" to have Jesus die and to put faith in that "ransom", and so they can use that to scam people out of their money and prevent society from progressing.
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  PSacramento

  
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  JustHuman14

  I can tell you what does the Orhodox Church believes about this matter. Most of the Protestand religions in the West ignore many facts regarding Christian history and specially the Eastern Orthodox Church.

  In the Hebrew text and the translation of the Greek text, there is a simple meaning regarding Adam. We read that it 'was good'. In the Hellenic text says 'λ?αν καλ??that literally mean very good...

  So there is a big mistake to translate very good to PERFECT, τ?λειος...Ιn the Orthodox Theology there is no such a thing. According to the Early Church Fathers, Adam was not created perfect, like most of the Protestand Churches claim.

  He was created not perfect and he would have the chance to become perfect by actions of holyness. And that was God's plan for humans to reach Holyness and Union with God. So with sin Adam missed the opportunity to reach perfection. That is why Jesus came to open again that road for humans that leads to perfection and Union with God
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  JosephMalik

  The operative word here is perfect, whatever that means? The devil is in this interpretation and there is no reason to think that Adam was perfect. Perfection in our faith or the things we do has an entirely different meaning from the one the WT implies to Adam. I know of no scriptures that teach Adam was perfect anyway. Does anyone here have one? Adam was without sin and called the Son of God the way our Lord was yes, we have that much: Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. And immortality would have been provided by the tree of life. So there is no need for Adam to have been created differently in a physical way than the animals were that die. That ability would come later. But at least we can gather from the Genesis account that it was intended for man.

  As to what really happened at this beginning we only have the account given in Genesis which some believe to be allegorical. I have no problem with such thinking as the complex details and incredible problems that were a part of this beginning were summed up and could well be presented in this way. But they were intended to be taken by us as root texts upon which all doctrine and thinking was to be anchored. Doctrine not in harmony with such texts would could then be understood as false. WT thinking on Adams perfection then fails in the face of such details. If we can read and think for ourselves then we should be able to see this and more. As to why we die as a result and why it is that our Lord can turn this around for us? I gave some of my thoughts on this here: http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/beytrin.htm#_Toc244666001

  Joseph
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  moshe

  The story of Eden is perhaps the best use of a strawman agrument by religion- 1st they convince everyone (incorrectly) that Adam was a perfect creation and that he lost his perfection and everlasting life due to sin and then they provide the perfect solution- Jesus.
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  Elsewhere

  > He became physically imperfect when he ate from the tree of knowledge and at that point he started to degenerate.

  This is a very common misconception about Genesis. Nowhere does the bible say anything anywhere close to that.

  Here is what the bible really says:

  The god said:
  Gen. 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

  The surpent said:
  Gen: 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

  What happened when they ate the fruit?Gen 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

  Did they die? No. Did they come to know good and evil? Yes. Who lied? The god or the surpent? Obviously the god lied and the surpent told the truth.

  Why do humans die? Simple: The gods became afraid of the humans because, after they ate the fruit, they become like the gods. The gods were afraid of the humans so they prevented the humans from becoming immortal:

  Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden

  If these heavenly gods are so powerful and loving, then why did they lie to the humans and then, out of FEAR, prevent the humans from becoming immortal?

  Also: Who was the "good guy" and who was the "bad guy"? Obviously the surpent was the good guy and the gods were the bad guys.