I would like to find proof of this without refering to Ray franz's c.o.c. material.
is there anywhere a charter, a letter, a document that states stuff like a majority vote needed etc?
Oz
want proof that the GB votes on doctrine
by Aussie Oz 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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wobble
Good point, Aussie Oz,
I do not remember seeing it anywhere else, perhaps others, like our treasure Blondie, may be able to supply something. I can see that it can be difficult to quote C.O.C to someone who you do not wish to know that you have read it.
The only thing that comes to mind, if no other source is found, is to quote it as though someone told you etc. etc. and then add, as this info. came out in the early eighties, if any of it was inaccurate the W.T would have challenged it straight away.
Good Luck,
love
Wobble
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teel
It's a tough one. As Ray mentions in his book, there were no outsiders allowed in the meetings, except to report, then they leave. Also the WTS is extremely careful of what they put in writing. So I think the only source of the voting system is Ray Franz.
You could plant doubts though, by asking them what they think how is a decision made? Can it be alway unanimous? If there's an old teaching that needs to be changed, does it stay until an unanimous vote is reached? Or do they think the Holy Spirit guides every member to vote in a specific way? If that is true, why is the need for so many members instead of a single one? More members is useful when you need different oppinions only.
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cantleave
Do you really think something like that is going to be available to R&F or anyone else for that matter outside the GB?
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yesidid
The closest I’ve seen is the quote below:
“Is it not also true that elders are in subjection to the faithful slave class, especially as represented by the circuit overseer? Then again, the circuit overseer needs to be in subjection to the district overseer, and the district overseer to the Branch Committee of the land where he is serving. What about the Branch Committee members? They must be “in subjection to one another” and also to the Governing Body representing the faithful and discreet slave class, which, in turn, is accountable to Jesus, the enthroned King. (Matthew 24:45-47) As in any body of elders, members of the Governing Body have to respect the others’ points of view. For example, one may think he has a fine idea. But unless a sufficient number of the other members agree with his suggestion, he just has to put the matter aside. Truly, all of us need humility, for all of us are in subjection.”
WT. December 1 ’93 Happy are the Humble.
They don’t say what the number is but there is a number required to approve an “idea”…
Another thing I noticed, they make it plain that they are not accountable to the “faithful and discreet slave”, which they claim to represent.
y
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Black Sheep
Try to only use WT documents that the Dubbie already has. Recent is best.
Second best is original WT material that you have, or original material that the WT has quoted.
Third best, a copy.
Last on the list, way down at the bottom of the barrel, is anything that can not be documented from original literature. Don't even bring up the subject.
You often only get one chance to say something to a Dubbie before they head for the hills. Don't waste it. Have the documentation stashed within arms reach before you open your mouth.
Cheers
Chris
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LUKEWARM
Thanks for posting that yesidid!
(*** w93 12/1 p. 22 par. 12 Happy Are the Humble ***)
That is a great reference to have when talking to the "friends"!
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aSphereisnotaCircle
As an above poster stated, if your trying to get a JW to think, you might want to ask THEM how the GB make dicisions. Ask them to tell you how it's done.
This is a question that all JW's should be able to answer, but none can, and most have not even thought to ask it yet.
So get him to start asking, or at least wondering.
Ask him, do they get there info in dreams? OR visions? or do they all hold hands and say a prayer and writing appears on the wall? Do all the GB come to the same conclusions all at the same time? Is there voting invoved? IF so how much of a vote does it take to win?
Since your JW will not be able to answer these questions, it can be something you can refer back to every now and then, over time as though you are still just "wondering"
I have done this with my family and it just makes them nuts because unlike most things, they have NO REPLY to such a question, none at all. They know it is a very legitimate question that any member should have an answer to.
And whats more they are embarressed that they cannot answer it, AND embarressed that they never even thought to ask it, until you started nagging them about it.
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inbetween
never thoght about it myself, and it is such a crucial question. When I learned about the voting, that was the final seal on my conviction, that they are not directed in any way by holy spirit.
However, if you aks a JW, maybe an elder, they may think, it is like it should be in an elder meeting, where they pray for holy spirit, then discuss the scriptures relevant, and then come to a decision, EVERYBODY agrees.
What does not always work in elder meetings, surley it works for the GB. Thats how they may explain it....
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cantleave
it is like it should be in an elder meeting, where they pray for holy spirit, then discuss the scriptures relevant, and then come to a decision, EVERYBODY agrees.
LOL - What actually happens is someone comes up with an Idea, speaks to his mates before the Elders meeting to gain support for said idea. Asks the COBE to add a rather vague item on the agenda where he will come up with his idea. The Elders who he hasn't spoken too haven't had time to think about so go with the flow and the idea gets approved. If there is a dispute is the bible used? Like hell, you reach for the policy files.
When I was appointed I was told by the circuit overseer that an Elder should bring his Flock book, the organized book and ask the Secretary for the appropriate policy files - he forgot to mention the bible. I thought "I guess the bible goes without saying". The truth is the bible was not used. The policy files replace the bible at congregation level and it is probably the same at GB level too.