Jonestown and Watchtower Society--Similarities

by GinnyTosken 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • LDH
    LDH

    I think the fact that the WBTS does not have a charismatic figurehead like Jim Jones is what deceives a lot of people.

    If the WTBS were headed up by one nutbrain individual (instead of the nine or ten), people would be much quicker to note that 'he' made false predictions, and become disillusioned. This is why less than one thousand died in Guyana instead of tens of thousands.

    But because they operate as a 'governing body,' the inference is that there is a group of highly intelligent, spiritual men. Throw in that Fatihful and Discreet slave crap, and you've got a good mechanism for quelling doubts.

    Now, let's say ol' charles CRAZE Rutherflawed was in charge today--people would be dropping out like flies.

    Lisa

  • CPiolo
    CPiolo

    Lisa:

    You overlook the fact that the WT was run by a figurehead nutcase for most of its history - Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz. It wasn't until the early 1970's that it began to be led by a group figurehead of nutcases.

    CPiolo

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    WOW! This is powerful stuff! What would happen if I printed this out and sent it to my sister? Think she might see the similarities. I think I'm going to buy the book tomorrow. Thanks for tipping us off to this!

  • Scully
    Scully

    LDH writes:

    If the WTBS were headed up by one nutbrain individual (instead of the nine or ten), people would be much quicker to note that 'he' made false predictions, and become disillusioned. This is why less than one thousand died in Guyana instead of tens of thousands.

    Unfortunately, the cumulative damage done by the WTS is far worse than what Jim Jones accomplished in one fell swoop. The number of deaths that have happened over the years for lack of blood transfusions, for lack of organ transplants, the suicides that occurred when people were disfellowshipped and cut off from the only social network they had ever known, and so on..... the numbers I can only imagine would equal several Jonestowns. It's still the same brainwashing that takes place.... people are willing to DIE for this organization; and probably, if the GB ever gave New Light to that effect, would be willing to KILL for it too.... no questions asked.

    Thanks for all this info Ginny.... I'm printing it out for future reference, and also bookmarking this thread. I'm so glad you took the time to share this with us.

    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

  • Flip
    Flip

    .

  • teejay
    teejay

    ... the cumulative damage done by the WTS is far worse than what Jim Jones accomplished in one fell swoop. The number of deaths that have happened over the years for lack of blood transfusions, for lack of organ transplants, the suicides that occurred when people were disfellowshipped and cut off from the only social network they had ever known, and so on..... the numbers I can only imagine would equal several Jonestowns.

    So true, Scully.

    Wouldn't it be interesting (in a twisted kinda way) to be able to see a counter click off the number of people worldwide who have died as a direct result of their participation with 'the happiest people on earth'?

    I wonder what it would read...

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    LDH,

    I agree that JW followers today often wave away the idea that the Watchtower Society might be a cult because the leadership is so diffuse. It's easy to forget that a corporation allows a group of people to have the same legal powers, rights, and liabilities as an individual.

    It is even more difficult to pinpoint leadership and responsibility nowadays, what with at least three different corporations in Brooklyn alone and the "spiritual" leadership of the Governing Body working from the sidelines.

    CPiolo,

    I agree that Russell and Rutherford, and to an extent, Knorr and Franz, were charismatic leaders. I see Knorr as more authoritarian than charismatic. Franz, from what I've heard, was charismatic, but his influence was mostly under the guise of Knorr's leadership.

    In the case of Russell and Rutherford, I'm guessing that people weren't as alert to the dangers of charismatic leaders and cults in the first half of the century. After World War II, totalitarianism became a big concern. I don't recall much mention of cults until the 1970s.

    Sinclair Lewis published Elmer Gantry in 1927, but evidently the public wasn't ready for the message. This is from the back of the book:

    Today universally recognized as a landmark in American literature, Elmer Gantry scandalized readers when it was first published, causing Sinclair Lewis to be "invited" to a jail cell in New Hampshire and to his own lynching in Virginia. His portrait of a golden-tongued evangelist who rises to power within his church--a saver of souls who lives a life of hypocrisy, sensuality, and ruthless self-indulgence--is also the record of a period, a reign of grotesque vulgarity, which but for Lewis would have left no record of itself. Elmer Gantry has been called the greatest, most vital, and most penetrating study of hypocrisy that has been written since Voltaire.

    bluesapphire,

    I think an indirect approach is helpful to those who still believe in Jehovah's Witness doctrine. If you try to reason directly about Jehovah's Witness beliefs and the history of the organization, automatic defenses go up, it is viewed as an attack, and you are often viewed as an attacker.

    It seems much easier for a JW to look at an example of someone else's twisted religious history and see the flaws. Defenses are down and the information soaks in unconsciously. I would just loan your sister the book if you buy it. Allow her the time and space to make the comparisons on her own.

    Scully,

    I agree that the cumulative damage done by the WTS is far worse than what Jim Jones did. And that's only counting those who died literal deaths. What about all the people who have been killed in spirit, as Scott Peck describes in People of the Lie?:

    When I say that evil has to do with killing, I do not mean to restrict myself to corporeal murder. Evil is also that which kills spirit. There are various essential attributes of life--particularly human life--such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may "break" a horse or even a child without harming a hair on its head. Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others--to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredictability and originality, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity.

    [bolding mine]

    Ginny
  • Scully
    Scully

    teejay writes:

    Wouldn't it be interesting (in a twisted kinda way) to be able to see a counter click off the number of people worldwide who have died as a direct result of their participation with 'the happiest people on earth'?

    The Watchtower Victims' Memorial is a very small sampling of names of people who died as a result of not receiving blood transfusions or other WTS-policy related deaths. If people wish to add names to the list, they are welcome to do so.

    http://www.ajwrb.org/victims/index.shtml

    Ginny:
    If you think of JWs in terms of the definition in People of the Lie it's probably safe to say that they are already 99.9% dead.

    Scott Peck's words (as highlighted by you) bear repeating:

    When I say that evil has to do with killing, I do not mean to restrict myself to corporeal murder. Evil is also that which kills spirit. There are various essential attributes of life--particularly human life--such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may "break" a horse or even a child without harming a hair on its head. Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others--to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredictability and originality, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity.
    That quote is a keeper!

    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

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