this is gunna be a long road to truth, looking at both sides. and i will need help

by Aussie Oz 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Aussie Oz

  Convinced as i 99% am that the Wt society is all we have concluded, I feel i owe to myself and my children to be 100% convinced before actively trying to extract them.

  First up i must say, doctrine is of little interest to me. What gets me is the provable wrong-doing, the hypocrasy, cover-ups, double standards, you know what i mean i think.

  On that sort of stuff, i feel it right to look at the counter arguments and proofs offered to explain the WT side of things, both by Wt soc themselves and apologists.

  therein lies the daunting road. I grew up in the 'truth', so i never got to make sure of all things before getting baptised. I find it daunting indeed to have to wade through so much argument and counter argument. What is true, what is a malicious lie, what has been blown out of proportion, and by whom. There is just so much from both sides that i almost dont know where to start.

  Just as we dont want JWs to listen to only the WT soc, then i must investigate fairly both sides of what is now being revealed to me.

  So i ask, please bear with me if i post apologist sounding stuff sometimes as i may well want to hear opposing veiws.

  Perhaps some of you have faced the same challenge.

  oz
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  cyberjesus

  You are doing fine and your take on things is correct. I strongly suggest to read Crisis of consience by Ray Franz. Thats a must read book. It will help you a great deal since it tells you from a loving positions why the wts is wrong in lying to their followers
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  Heaven

  Everyone has a different experience with the WTS and as a JW. Some never experience the things that others have. Others can verify and substantiate what many have had to deal with. This is why it is good for all of us to share what we have gone through. Most of my family are non-JW. Those that are tend to be very loving when we get together, however... they are not involved in our lives. They only deal with us when they have to. And of course, they are forever wanting us 'worldlies' to join. They are not without their problems too. Being a JW does not solve any of the challenges everyone has to face. It does tend to put additional, unnecessary pressures on people to perform for something they believe will possibly grant them everlasting life.

  What I have learned so far in life is the following.... if what is happening to you or what you are doing does not align with "True North Principles", as described by Stephen Covey, then you are going to have difficulties and more than likely suffer damaging consequences. These principles are about character ethics, they are timeless, unchanging, unwaivering, and universal. Also, sometimes, we must make mistakes, we must 'sin', in order that we may truly learn.

  So I use these as a barometer for life. I see some things even in the Bible, as not aligning with "True North Principles". I see many things in the WTS that do not support these principles. A key one for me is 'headship' and 'subjugation of women'. These are not True North. They do not support love, growth and creativity, they actually stifle it.

  Start analyzing, from a principled view, the doctrines, rules, structure, and behaviours of those in the WTS and I think you will quickly see how they do not align with anything that supports "The Laws of Life"/"The Laws of the Farm"/"True North Principles". What exactly is 'loving' about the WTS?
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  zoiks

  Aussie, I appreciate your willingness to be open to all sides of an issue. This is certainly something that the WTS would never condone, but good for you! As is often said around this board, truth has nothing to fear from falsehood. Intellectual honesty requires that you not only consider things that you already agree with, but that you confront ideas and arguments that challenge what you believe and know. Only then can you truly state that you have "done your homework".

  I think that, after doing an honest investigation, you will find that your conclusions thus far have been correct. But that's just me. Good luck!

  zoiks
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  StoneWall

  this is gunna be a long road to truth

  Aussie Oz this is the same road that most of us are on.

  That's what brought me to this board in the first place. I figured if according to the bible even Jesus was allowed to talk

  to Satan after he rebelled (thus making Satan an apostate) and Jah got to talk to Satan in heaven after he rebelled

  according to the book of Job, and we are encouraged by the WT to be christlike that I would follow their examples and

  see what the other side had to say and if it could withstand the "truth".

  Needless to say many of my former doubts (that I had been encoraged to shelf and wait on Jah) started to surface

  and be substantiated. I researched everything I could find to either affirm my beliefs or to be able to deny them.

  And it is still an ongoing search for truth. Not what man labels as "truth" but the truth that can stand up to any scrutiny

  and still remain the truth. That was/is my biggest hangup with being raised a JW was that we were told not to question

  certain things (such as the faithful slave doctrine, 1914 date etc.)

  Everytime I heard a statement like that I would remind the "brothers" about the scriptures in the bible about to make

  sure of all things and hold fast to what is fine, and to test the inspired expressions to see if they originate with God.

  That is why I quit going to meetings because both I and the Elders knew that we were going to keep locking

  horns when someone would say not to question. I just up and quit one day and didn't go back.

  To this day one of my favorite (if not the favorite) expressions from the bible is that you will know the truth and the

  truth will set you free.

  And Jesus said his load was light and his yoke was kindly but that man would load you down.

  The whole time at the kingdom hall I always felt loaded down and was always looking for the refreshment of my soul

  that was talked about from the stage/platform but that I wasn't experiencing.

  Now I must say that I do feel my load has lightened and some refreshment since I quit going.

  I wish you well on your journey through life and have as much love,fun,enjoyment as you can as you pursue truth

  just in case we only do go around once.
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  Satanus

  You know, it's funny. The vast majority of my wt experiences were positive. I rubbed shoulders w, for a short time, w the top brass, in canada. I worked at bethel for almost a yr. I worked on a lot of quick builds. I hung out w a lot of pioneers, etc. Of course, i never knew anything else, besides wt. I was depressed most of the time, though. Many times, it was so terribly painful that i wanted to die. It was a result of their flawed doctrines and flawed moral standards. Eventually, i left because, from reading ray franz' book, i could see that god wasn't directing them. My depression slowly got better, over the yrs, after leaving.

  However, you gotta do it your way, just as i did it my way.

  S
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  c.t.russel the IVth
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  yknot

  May I suggest you consider threads covering each presidency or decade .......

  I think we all understand.

  (Hugs to ya on your journey!)
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  VoidEater

  I am convinced they are no more nor less hypocritcal than any other religious organization.

  I am convinced they intentionally keep people isolated from the world at large in order to control them better.

  I have seen they break families apart.

  I have seen they cover up wrongdoing, including child sexual abuse, to keep their reputation appearing clean, to a greater extent than other religious organizations.

  Your mileage may vary.

  PS - the doctrinal stuff is of paramount importance to me. If they publish lies, I want no part of them.
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  AnnOMaly

  Aussie Oz - you're going about it the right way, taking your time, properly listening to both sides of the argument, gradually sifting out the gold from the dross.

  Six years on after my initial 'epiphany,' and I'm still undecided or uneducated on certain matters. I see the Trinity as open to biblical and philosophical interpretation; the creation vs. evolution issue I know embarrassingly little about, although I now see the early Genesis account as allegorical, but how exactly it can be reconciled to the bigger biblical message I haven't yet figured out for myself; whether the Bible hints at a conscious post-mortem 'existence' of some sort or not - but I know one day I'll have to bite the bullet and properly research these things and think them out. Part of the process, I think, is becoming comfortable with a level of uncertainty.

  What I am certain about is that JWs don't have 'the Truth' TM and their distinctive doctrines are either plain hogwash or open to other valid interpretations.

  Oh and happy new year :-)