Can a Person Get Salavtion if He Never Read . ..? (page 3)

clash_city_rockers

DW posted,

"We don't have to get everything right to be saved, but men who seek to promote their ideas use this to enslave other christian, we don't need men or their organizations to be saved only Faith."

Response: EZ, dont freek out who said anything about organizations churches or anything we are just talking about the bible and salvation. We will get to church and other stuff later much later. I can tell your carring a lot of baggage from being under bondage of the WT remember I was once there too. It's been over 10 years since I left.

D wiltshire

Clash,

Do you feel a person can be inspired(Holy Spirit) today, and speak the word of God that directs one to put faith in Jesus?

Or that all inspired expressions ended in the 1st century?

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Adonai438

If you remember please call me angie instead- my screen name is Adonai438 as a reference to God not me :)
I am a bit uncomfortable being called Adonai- maybe I'll change that.

Ok Clash-- I think we are arguing the on the same side here. And I'm sorry but no you're not the only person on this board who is on the side of faith alone without works-- I am too. I'm not saying you shouldn't read the Bible or that it's ok for someone who has put their faith in Christ to ignore the Bible-- I think it is very important in the life of every Christian because it is the only infallible communication from God. The only way to grow in your knowlege and stay true to God. Or for that matter the only way to know what 'god' you are following and have put your faith in.
I am just saying that technically it is an act or work we do- something we are supposed to do- but still a work and we are saved by faith. God is just and will judge those who did not have access to the Bible fairly. You should and are commanded in scripture to read the scriptures but its not the act of reading the Bible that saves you-- I think we agree but are getting hung up on wording.
DW
I would disagree that JWs are basicly Christians but corrupted by men. The things these men corrupted are the very essence of who Yahweh is. I could go into this further but this is a whole new thread topic.
Yes I believe God still 'talks' today.
He's talked to and instructed his people throughout history why would he all the sudden stop?
He does not however still inspire more scripture. If anyone takes issue with that I suggest that they examine their newly inspired stuff and compare it to the Bible- God does not and cannot by nature contradict himself.
I believe he answers prayer and leads us(true Christians) in daily life still today. He does not give new revelation on doctrine or revise his doctrine. You grow in your knowlege of what the Bible already says but it does not change or get added to.

No one asked to discuss this but here goes:
No human can speak for God. JWs claim that their ORG is God inspired and to question them is to question God- Wrong. If they were directly inspired by God then all their writtings they claim God inspired are claiming to basicly be additions to the Bible.
The problem is their writtings are full of error and contradiction and the Bible is not- that says something about whether their writtings are truly inspired. They want it both ways- They are inspired when they want people to listen but they are just human when they are proven wrong. At the very least this proves we need to read the bible for ourselves and not trust them to tell us what it says.

ISP

Salvation? Christ? Are we talking about the real world here? Or the make believe?

ISP

D wiltshire

Angie,

I will try to remember to not call you by your handle.

Do you feel the Gift of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecying, healing, knowledge, and other gifts are still operating through christian today.

The purpose of my starting this thread is to see what response my questions would bring, and to explore the idea of how correct we need to be to get salvation.

I feel it is important to read the Bible, but to have wrong ideas is to be expected, for who is it that can proclaim, his version of understanding of the Bible the right one.

Unless God himself tell us personally.

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

Adonai438

Yes I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation today.
-I do not believe as some do that you have to have certain ones to be saved (ie- tongues for the Bible says not all have the same gifts).
-Others tend to forbid certain gifts that are more miraculous in appearance because it makes them nervous but that too is an extreme that is wrong (1st Corinthians 14:39 says do not forbid speaking in tongues)
-When you are 'saved'- have put your faith in the true God- the Spirit gives you gifts according to his will -1st Corinthians 12:7-11.
-1st Corinthians 13:8-10 says that these will pass away but that happens when 'perfection comes'-- pefection has not come yet :)
-Not everyone who 'displays' these are true Christians though as Satan tries to copy everything of God's for deception.

DW--

I feel it is important to read the Bible, but to have wrong ideas is to be expected, for who is it that can proclaim, his version of understanding of the Bible the right one.

I agree to a point. I agree that as humans we are fallible in our interpretations of the Bible. I also think that God wouldn't have given us the Bible if it was too hard to understand- it's written to us after all. Some people have their minds closed when reading it and that hinders them from taking anything of value from it and misunderstanding what it says.
Dear ISP :)
We are talking real world here :)

clash_city_rockers

DW asked a very important question:

“Do you feel a person can be inspired(Holy Spirit) today, and speak the word of God that directs one to put faith in Jesus?
Or that all inspired expressions ended in the 1st century?”

Response: As you continue to study scripture you will see more and more how very important and key the question you just posed is. How this question is answered will affect ones view of THE SUFFICIENCY OF SCRIPTURE and the CANNONICITY of the bible.

First of all we do not have the same experiences as the apostles so their experiences have to be mediated to us through the pages of the bible. The bible itself claims full and only sufficiency for salvation. 2 Tim 3:15-17 Paul claims that scripture alone (back to sola scriptura the chief article of the reformation) is the ONLY and ALL sufficient means in which one can know how to be saved and grow in godliness. Go to 2 Tim 3:15 Paul is explaining to Timothy that if scripture alone was sufficient for his salvation, if that is so then the scriptures too should be sufficient for our salvation today. The doesn’t mean he has to read the bible but it does imply that someone has to share the scriptures with him, it also gives a good reason for an illiterate to learn to read.

Today, the only way we can know God’s will for our lives and how to be saved is contained in the 66 books of the bible. If there was God’s revelation outside of scriptures then one could legitimately question the sufficiency of the bible. Thus having a CASE AGAINST 2 Tim 3:15-17. If this were so and there was “special” revelation outside the bible then we would have a greater epistemological problem. How would we know what is spoken outside of scripture really God’s special revelation what legit test of verification would we have we can’t trust the bible because that may be flawed so what else is there to do. Big problems when you go outside of scripture.

You see all we need is the scriptures alone, not the bible plus the Pope, not the bible plus the book of Mormon, not the bible plus the Watchtower, not the bible plus brother Fred in some obscure Azuza Street pentacostal experience.
I would submit to you that the all special revelation (info on how to be right with God) from God ended with the closing of the Cannon (old and new testament)

I hope I’ve answered you question.

Your asking very good questions,

jr

Angie, its cool. :-)

late,
jr

I frankly don't think the creator of the universe gives a rat's ass what book of nonsense you've read or haven't. Do you give expression to God's love through your actions? Through compassion? Non-judgementalism? Love for your neighbor? Yes?

Response: This is tottally works rightiousness crud... There is no grace in your view.

tootles,
jr

Can a Person Get Salavtion if He Never Read . ..?

clash_city_rockers

D wiltshire

Adonai438

ISP

D wiltshire

Adonai438

clash_city_rockers

clash_city_rockers

gambler

clash_city_rockers

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