by besty 83 Replies latest members politics
Fark,
When everyone is so entrenched, it's time to go home and relax!
Words of wisdom, after all it's not like someone is going to save the world by debating and winning. Even the 607/587 thingy,, people is people they can beleive the moon is made of swiss cheese,, who cares really not worth getting emotionally worked up about.
besty,
thank-you for being a gentleman.
purps
John Doe - difficult for you to give up the insults eh? Hard habit to break I guess. I don;t find posting on my own thread to be lying. If you find more than the occasional comment from me on the subject going forward please feel free to call me out. But a bit early for an accusation of lying surely? I'd like to say you have shown your hand again but there is nothing new to see. <EDIT: IGNORE>
SBF :
However I think there are far more pressing concerns facing humanity, such as the issue of peak oil and the end of the capitalist system as we know it,
A variant delay argument. "The roof is burning but the grocery budget is tight, so I'll leave the roof for now"
WAC
Besty ... for the sake of argument lets say your 100% right ... okay. Now what? None of us here have any power to create obama style change. Take your facts/figures to the policitians. What do you expect to accomplish on a site of former mind control vicitms?
First of all thank you for modifying your style to something resembling human intelligence :-) My goal is <was> to educate the JWN audience <such as are interested in climate change> in what the mainstream scientific view is. I would hope that former mind-control victims would be open to education and particularly the benefits of rational analysis of issues.
John Doe - difficult for you to give up the insults eh? Hard habit to break I guess. I don;t find posting on my own thread to be lying. If you find more than the occasional comment from me on the subject going forward please feel free to call me out.
You stated earlier you were not using insults by calling "those posters" what they are. Do you refuse to extend the same courtesy to others? I, sir, have not insulted you, but merely pointed out what is obvious to everyone here.
Focusing on the 'controversy' is a key denier strategy.
I agree with that, Paul. At the same time though, human nature being what it is, sometimes it's hard to see past our own little areas of expertise/knowledge. A poorly thought out claim from "Experts" can easily taint the whole subject for you.
For example: I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of climate models. The math involved is frankly more than just a little bit over my head and always will be. I do have a fairly decent knowledge of botany though.
Dendrochronology indicates two things about the recent past: First, atmospheric CO2 levels have risen in the last 150 years. This is typically ascertained by measurement of C12/C13 ratios at various points in the core sample. Second, mean average temperatures have also risen slightly as well. This is ascertained by measurement of radial growth and density along the sample. Increased radial growth = Longer growing season = Higher peak termperatures.
Tree-ring data indicates cooler conditions in the early 1700s, followed by warming that started about half-way through that century. An abrupt cooling occurred in the late 1700s and continued for much of the 1800s. The coldest recent period was between the 1830s and 1880s. (Officianados of American history may recall the winter of 1879-1880 as told by Laura Ingalls Wilder and others. )
A steadily increasing warming trend followed. Temperatures in the 1900s have been higher than in any other period captured by the tree rings from all over the northern hemisphere. The 10 highest growth intervals are all after 1920 and the highest 25-year growth period was between 1944 and 1968. Like all field data, this is not 100% "Clean." (Meaning there are some anomalies) There is a very tiny fertilizer effect from increased CO2 that must be factored out of growth data. Droughts like we have experienced in the American West in the 1930's, 1950's, 1980's and 2000's must also be accounted for. The end result, therefore is an amalgamation of hundreds of reconstructed chronologies, but the current consensus is that this data is reliable and accurate.
Okay. So on one hand the unnaturally good growing conditions we have experienced are actually some very good evidence that directly links rising temperature to rising CO2 levels. Trees in this century have grown much faster than in the previous century and the corresponding agricultural implication(s) at least for the Northern hemisphere should be obvious.
On the other hand, we have recent studies conducted by scientists whose primary discipline appears to be geology which blame these same conditions for the current die-back in North American forests. The only efforts I have seen to reconcile this claim with the evidence so far don't seem to be terribly plausible from the standpoint of botany. (i.e. The species in question grow in a very wide range of elevations, tempertures and precipitation levels)
Don't misunderstand. It's not that I don't realize that the growing conditions that a couple of generations have been blessed with will mean very little if the forces which likely have caused them eventually destabilize our climate. I do. It's not that I'm happy about the spread of West Nile virus here where I live. I'm not. It's just that it is all too easy not to take what is in the last analysis, a glorified weather forecast as seriously as it perhaps it should be when it appears to be marred by dubious ancillary claims.
A variant delay argument. "The roof is burning but the grocery budget is tight, so I'll leave the roof for now"
The bombs dropped during future possible oil wars are a more immediate threat to your roof catching fire than slowly rising temperatures.
And without a functioning system of exchange and organisation there will be no way to build the technologies required to meet the challenge of climate change.
Besty..
As usual,Farkel has it nailed..
It`s time to relax..
Not take the board too seriously..
Have a Beer..
Then another..LOL!!..
..................... ...OUTLAW
future possible oil wars
or 'already happening climate change'
you choose.
ironically the solutions to Peak Oil problems are the same as those for climate change.
Besty...don't sweat it. Perhaps the gradual climate change is a trigger in the next step of human biological evolution. You do believe in evolution forces, right? You do believe in adaptation and natural selection, right? You do believe in survival of the fitest, right?
thanks TD, and thats why us non-experts have no other rational choice but to listen to what the scientists are telling us, in increasingly shrill tones.
