You dont believe in Jesus...What about prophecy and their fulfillments

by cyberjesus 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  frankiespeakin

  CyberJez,

  Can you give us a prophecy that Jesus fullfilled and we will debunk it? That would save us a lot of time, instead of going through a whole bunch.
• 

  cyberjesus

  Be born in Bethlehem ? be given vinegar? What I am trying to get is to understand about the prophecies that were written before he existed and somehow a man did fulfill them/
• 

  Chalam

  Isaiah 66:8 Ezekiel 20:34 Ezekiel 20:41 Joel 3:2

  Ezekiel 11:17 (New International Version)

  17 "Therefore say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.'

  Look in to what happened to the Jews after and the history of the nation of Israel. It has long disappeared before 1948.

  Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  That's just one prophecy. Look around, plenty more have "come to pass", just waiting on the ones that remain.

  Any commnents

  Time to believe :)

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  cofty

  Being born in Bethlehem is a classic example of gospel writers making the "facts" fit.

  The historical Jesus was probably from Galilee.

  Mark, the earliest gospel writer ignores Jesus birth completely; no virgins, angels, shepherds et al.

  Matthew has the family living in Bethlehem where Jesus is born. This of course in Matthews view is the fulfillment of another OT prophecy in Micah. After Jesus birth the family flees to escape Herod who murders all the babies. Once again this lets Matthew make at least two more OT references. The killing of the innocents parallels Moses birth and the calling out of Egypt.
  
  Interestingly Josephus wrote a very complete history of 1st C Palestine and he was no fan of Herod and yet not a word about any massacre of infants! (Josephus' so-called reference to Jesus is a later addition by the way)
  
  By contrast Luke has Joseph and Mary living in Nazareth and has to invent a census to get the family down to Bethlehem - no such census happened.
  
  Lets allow for a moment that it did, why on earth would Joseph, a native of Nazereth tramp off to Bethlehem just because his ancestors hailed form there centuries previously? It is a literary tool to get a Galilean family off to Judea in time for the birth.
  
  Then Luke has the family spend a bit of time in Judea, go to the temple, meet a coupe of old prophets and then go home to Galilee.
  
  Both gospel writers had a problem. The Jesus of history was from Galilee; the messiah was to hail form Bethlehem. They each solved dilemma in different and mutually incompatible ways.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  CyberJez,

  You realize that the gospel accounts are not factual as in we don't see anybody walking on water, or raising the dead, turning water into wine, feeding 5,000 people with a few fishes and a couple of loaves of bread and having more left overs than when we started right?

  So if the gospel account says he did these things we should automatically be suspicious since it is not telling anything factual right from the get go.

  Next post I will look into the few things you mentioned.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Micah 5:2

  2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

  That is not saying Jesus would be born in Bethlehem and when was ever Jesus a ruler in Israel clearly it is only by Mathews interpretation that this is a fulfilled prophecy.

  Vinegar:

  All my adversaries are [b] before You.
  20 Reproach has (AK) broken my heart and I am so sick
  And (AL) I looked for sympathy, but there was none,
  And for (AM) comforters, but I found none.
  21 They also gave me [c] (AN) gall for my food
  And for my thirst they (AO) gave me vinegar to drink.
  22 May (AP) their table before them become a snare;
  And (AQ) when they are in peace, may it become a trap.
  23 May their (AR) eyes grow dim so that they cannot see,
  And make their (AS) loins shake continually.
  24 (AT) Pour out Your indignation on them,

  Only by a stretch of the imagination can we conclude this is a prophecy about Jesus it can be applied anyway the gospel writer wants to just like the WT does when they apply scripture and besides didn't Jesus say: Father forgive them for they know not what they do when he was on the stake clearly this psalm is calling for his enemies destruction and not for their forgiveness so in any account it is a very selective use and all interpretation.

  This is not a fulfillment but is soley and purely up to the writer own very selective and out of contexts forced interpretation. Which relys heavily on the gullibility of his readers to beleive.