A Thought on DFing: Shafting the Hounders (page 2)

Open mind

The threat of lawsuit will make any elders with assets or substantial income nervous. If they have any still-functioning neurons wired for self-preservation amongst themselves, they will contact the Branch and there's a pretty good chance the Branch will tell them to back off.

Doc Bob had one sample letter threatening legal action on here quite a while ago. There's been a few simlar ones floating around.

If the elders blatantly ignore the instructions from Mother and go off half-cocked and DF someone prematurely/inappropriately, Mother has been known (rarely) to tell them to rescind the Disfellowshiping. Now, if Mother blows it and comes up with a DFing rule (e.g. elders viewing porn) and then changes the rules to be more lenient, nothing gets rescinded.

om

AllTimeJeff

I am not sure of how it will turn out, but just the ability to threaten to name individual elders in a lawsuit has been enough in some cases to have the Service Dept send a letter saying basically "Let it go for now. They haven't associated in years."

As always, the entire reason why fading is an option is because if you are away for a while, it is legally harder to justify the disfellowshipping of a person who has been away and not officially announced their intent as to leaving the cult. For the cult to kick anyone out in absentia doesn't follow their own internal rules. It is the "following of their own internal rules" that is the legal measurment behind any lawsuit.

Now I suspect in the future, the GB is working on finding "scriptural" (excuse me while I puke) rationale to disfellowship in absentia. But that isn't currently an option.

Gayle

Many exJWs in the past have moved once or twice to another locality to avoid the Elders after them. Many can't do that. The only thing that stops these elders in their tracks, if it's clear they're out to DF someone, is a letter from the exJW's attorney or a letter from the ex-JW asserting the intent to get an attorney. Of course, this is only done when the ex-JW has no intention of entering a KH again.

Then, between the WT lawyers and the ex-JW lawyer, there becomes "attorney ethics" involved. It seems at that point the WTS drops the issue according to reports. One gal recently did this and her name was never "announced" on the platform. Ironically, since her name was never "announced," her JW mother feels free to talk with her, whereas the mother has another daughter DF'd many years ago but won't talk to the officially "announced" DF'd daughter.

If anyone has given the attorney letter or asserted their intent to get a lawyer, and if there still was the "announcement" at the KH, I would like to know. Once there is such an "announcement" already, it sounds like it is too late.

It has been empowering to the ones who have done this, to have had the last word.

flipper

FARKEL - You know my story, as some here probably do. But briefly to summarize in the fall of 2006 after not attending for almost 4 years my ex-JW wife told my former elders ( in a congregation 80 miles away ) that Mrs. Flipper and I moved in together 1 month before marrying, committing alleged " circumstancial fornication ". No eyewitnesses , but my ex dub wife drove 80 miles to find me fully clothed at my fiances house at 10:00 A.M. Saturday morning. So she got my former elders chasing me down. We were harassed by menacing phone calls telling me to meet with them . I denied any wrongdoing and said there was NO reason to meet with them. They continued calling about 4 more times the next 4 months and finally sent me a letter saying they had set a date in March of 2007 to meet with me and that I should be there.

I called the chairman of the JC the day before and left this message, " I will NOT be attending your JC meeting with me tomorrow. As I have maintained - I am innocent of the false charges against me , you are scaring my wife with all the harassing phone calls, and if you continue to harass my wife and me I will get a restraining order against you and call the police. " 2 months went by , then in April - 2 of my former elders from that congregation came, uninvited, to our door to inform me I had been disfellowshipped in absentia for " circumstancial fornication. " I asked if there were eyewitnesses to my " circumstancial fornication ". They said " no" but that my ex-wife had found me here on a Saturday morning at my fiances house. They told me I could appeal the DFing decision. I said, " You're damned well right I'll appeal the decision. I'm not going to allow you to control whether I can continue speaking to my 80 something year old JW parents. ! "

So I appealed the DFing decision. I got help from posters like On the Way Out, Snakes in the Tower, Wilyloman ( to name a few ) who told me about Doc Bob's letter which I sent along WITH my appeal letter telling them if they DFed me falsely, I would sue them, the elders, for slander and defamation of character. My 23 year old son went as a supportive eyewitness on my behalf to the JC meeting ( which surprised the elders ) and he was great denying the allegations. The appeal elders said they'd have to write Bethel to see what decision to make. A month later - the appeal chairman called me and said the instructions from Bethel were that they overturned the DFing decision- I was free to go. They encouraged me to go back to meetings and I said, " No thanks. You've sucked 10 months out of my life . I went on blood pressure medicine and it was extremely offensive how I was treated. I won't be coming back. " Sorry for the length - but felt this added weight to your thread and what Nazi's these WT reps really are. People need to take the point of your thread seriously. Inactive faders , some of us have to FIGHT for our freedom ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

dissed

When I was an Elder in the 90's we were advised to leave long time faders alone, but apparently its changed and now some Elders feel justified in hounding ones who just want to be left alone.

To me, it sounds like revenge, or some vindictiveness. "Fine, you want to leave us, we'll show you! We can keep what's left of your family from talking to you! Yeah, you don't mess with us!"

I like the legal action threat. The WTS has the attorneys to fight back, but I don't think they want any adverse publicity from getting out.

Does anyone rememeber, "You have been Df'd for conduct unbecoming a Christian" announcements. Several Elders lost their shirts for announcing that on the platform after being sued. Even though in our city, the victim didn't prevail completely, the legal costs completely bankrupt all three JC Elders.

Out of principle, I love how the JW's will not back down on the 2 witness rule, but if money is in play, they quickly agree to settle.

Farkel

Keep in mind that a major point I brought up in this topic was that the stated purpose by the WTS of disfellowshipping is to "keep the Congregation clean" and that the very scripture the WTS uses to justify that action is the one which talks about anyone calling themselves a brother.

Obviously a quiet "fader" does not meet either criteria. They cannot pollute the Congregation because they don't associate at all with it, and they certainly no longer calls themselves a brother by word or by deed.

By their own rules they should not be able to justify DFing or DAing such people. They are being vindictive. That is why I believe there is a rationale for at least a Civil lawsuit. There is nothing ecclesiastical about what the hounders are doing to long time faders. It is therefore NOT a religious issue.

Farkel

kurtbethel

Many of the stories I have heard of this sort are clearly instances of stalking. These are worthy of a no contact or restraining order. Violation of those will give an elder an arrest record, so it should send a clear message to Jovah's finest.

bluesapphire

We have been inactive for 11 years. We even moved 40 miles away from where our cards are kept. Regardless, we have an elder who comes by about 6 times a year to try to get my husband back. (not me ... they don't want me.)

When he was over last he asked me if I attended another church. I wouldn't answer the question. He then told me that since it's obvious I'm never coming back I should write a letter of disassociation. I told him I wouldn't do that. He told me that as long as he doesn't hear of my talking to other witnesses or potential witnesses against the organization he would not take measures. I take this as a threat. But I've always known that the very second any elder or CO came after me I would threaten to sue them personally (not the organization) THEM!

hoggieman

HI, I am in this boat right now. In the last month I have gotten at least 6 emails and 10 calls from 2 elders. I have not responded to any except the other day I responded to one email, where the premise of the email sounded like he was just concerned and talking was an “option”. I replied back saying thanks for your concern, but I do not want to talk. Got a nasty reply back saying once I pull the blinders off my eyes and see the world for what it is hopefully I will return. Anyway, I got a follow up call from the tag team partner telling me “I don’t have an option, I have to meet with them…I have to”.

Thing I don’t get is not ONCE have they told my why they need to talk to me. Only thing they have given me are: “something urgent has come up”, “need your time”, “we want to tell you about assembly”, “you have not been to meetings”, “a serous matter has come to our attention”. I guess I feel that if they have not even had the decency to tell me what I am being charged with I don’t owe them anything.

flipper

HOGGIEMAN- You are right- you DON'T owe the elders ANYTHING. You don't have to meet with them about ANYTHING. They are trying to dominate and control you to get information out of you in order to DF you. If you give them no power- they will HAVE no power over you. Hang in there, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

A Thought on DFing: Shafting the Hounders

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