Ok so if we adapted and evolved then we would have a lot of evidence of our predecessors right? and not only a couple of hard to identify skeletons, why havent we found hundreds of bones, bones or remains of tribes of our predecessors? Why such big steps in evolution and not gradaully evolving steps? If we havent evolved physically in thousands of years shouldnt be there evidence of intermediate degrees of human evolution?
If we evolved..why in big sudden steps and not gradually?
by cyberjesus 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Leolaia
With the huge time spans involved, the steps were small and incremental. But our hominin ancestors lived in East Africa (rather than all over the earth) in rather small populations, so it is hard to find very many fossils, and what we do have luckily is thanks to geological factors (plate tectonics rifting Africa apart bringing many buried specimans to the surface). If you want to look for fossils, go to Kenya and go to the desert. That's where you'd find them. They're not all over the place.
And yes, there are many important specimens documenting the development to the genus Homo, and the early history of Homo.
-
Gopher
The circumstances of earth's geology and other factors make preservation of fossils relatively rare. Scientists acknowledge that of the specimens they have found, the evidence is consistent with the evolution model which has been repeatedly "tested" through observations and comparisons of paleontologists around the world.
The other thing I'll say (slightly off-topic, don't know if you've raised it yet) is that accepting the science of evolution does not necessarily make one an atheist. Many open-minded theists accept the science and say that in their mind, a divine power "got the ball rolling" on the process- created the "stuff" that evolved. To them a divine power who programmed the capacity for evolution into the creation is more intriguing than one who made each one specially. (Of course the Hebrew Bible claims each one was created specially by YHWH, but I'm going off topic here.)
-
zoiks
Fossilization is a rare event and needs the right circumstances to even have a chance. For example, chimpanzee fossils of any kind are extremely rare, probably because of their habitat - forested areas, which are not conducive to the fossilization process.
Actually there are many many bones and fossils that have been found are now easily identifiable to those trained to do so. Many, many examples of homo, australo, and others have been and continue to be found. Those who tell you that there are just "a few hard to identify skeletons" are probably the same ones who write books like, "Life - How Did Get Here? By Evolution or By Creation?", to name just one.
Try this as a starting resource: www.talkorigins.org
-
Leolaia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahelanthropus_tchadensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orrorin_tugenensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardipithecus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyanthropus_platyops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_anamensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_afarensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_africanus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_garhi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranthropus_aethiopicus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranthropus_boisei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranthropus_robustus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_habilis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_rudolfensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_georgicus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_ergaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_heidelbergensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
-
zoiks
LOL, Leolaia!
My link is still good, too!
-
villabolo
Cyberjesus:
"Ok so if we adapted and evolved then we would have a lot of evidence of our predecessors right? and not only a couple of hard to identify skeletons, why havent we found hundreds of bones, bones or remains of tribes of our predecessors? Why such big steps in evolution and not gradaully evolving steps? If we havent evolved physically in thousands of years shouldnt be there evidence of intermediate degrees of human evolution?"
We do not have a "couple of hard to identify skeletons in fact we have several virtually complete skeletons such as "Lucy" and "Nariokotome Boy". We also have tens thousands of bones and their fragments. We would have even more evidence if it weren't for the fact that Paleoanthropology is underfunded and that Africa, the place of our origins< is a political hellhole for fossil hunters to work in (and a very dangerous one).
The steps in evolution are not big nor are they super incremental. They occur in modest but observable steps. The theory explaining this is "Punctuated Equilibrium". We are evolving physically in the past ten thousand years as far as blood type, lack of wisdom teeth in a population enclave in Europe, intelligence (without bigger brains), immunity to diseases etc.
Please read some books or at least some science magazines before making such judgments.
villabolo
-
Leolaia
Some high quality specimens:
-
frankiespeakin
Thank god fossils are rare if they weren't we'd be tripping over bones every where we walked.
When we consider all the different type of animals that ever lived and the millions and in some cases billions that each species has given birth to it's a good thing they deteriorate rather quickly and only rarely under very special conditions do they get preserved for thousands of years and even rarer still that they get preserved for millions of years. So these bones are not just laying all over the place. they have to be found in special places where these rare preservations event occurred and then one has to sort through all sorts of other fossils for decades to find those closely related to our species.
What we need to be aware of is that every species is an intermediate species unless that species goes extinct. And since the distance in time between each rare find is so great it only appears to be in big and sudden steps. The fossil record is still impressive and has required many decade of devoted people to uncover as much as they have so far.
But perhaps the most impressive thing in the way of evolution as being fact is not just the fossil record but the DNA record which is much more precise and informative the more we learn about it and the faster we can read it(only 3 weeks for 3billion dna squences in the human genome) with the help of super computers. Dna is fleshing out the whole tree of life much better than the fossil record could ever hope to do.
-
villabolo
Frankiespeaking:
When we consider all the different type of animals that ever lived and the millions and in some cases billions that each species has given birth to it's a good thing they deteriorate rather quickly and only rarely under very special conditions do they get preserved for thousands of years and even rarer still that they get preserved for millions of years. So these bones are not just laying all over the place. they have to be found in special places where these rare preservations event occurred and then one has to sort through all sorts of other fossils for decades to find those closely related to our species.
Fossils are rare relative to the total number of individuals per species but, when you think about how some of them are discovered you come to the conclusion that they are super abundant relative to the needs of science if only the intense labor needed to uncover them were put in. The secret to figuring this out is to realize that most of them are underground.
Let's take a high quality skeleton like "Lucy" (Australopithecus Afarensis) in the Hadar region of Ethiopia. The Hadar Formation is a prime region for discovering fossils. Yet, no one digs in the ground randomly and relies on pure luck to discover something. They rely on soil erosion on seasonally dry riverbeds to uncover a fragment of a fossil. Then someone with a sharp and trained eye recognizes it as a human like remain just based on a sliver of bone. This protruding fossil could disappear within weeks. This implies that they're all over the place but, of course, the Anthropologists cannot be everywhere at once at all times.
Then, the careful digging begins. That digging further implies that they are all over the place depthwise. The implication of this when of this when one does some crude math is that there are staggering amounts of fossils, for the needs of scientists of course. It may just take centuries, sophisticated technology (a form of underground radar?) and high motivation to gather a super detailed picture of our heritage.
villabolo
