Does God need an Organization on earth today?

by wannabe 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    Does God need an Organization on earth today?

    I've heard it said, many times, that God has always had an organization on earth to direct his people! In the early days of the Israelite Nation that was very true. Moses led the Israelite Nation in his time period, we all know that to be true, don't we?

    No need to go into great detail about that, since most understand what his leadership was all about. With Aaron as the high priest, and his Son's officiating with him in the Temple, at that time.

    To cut right to the chase, let me focus on the words of Moses, about the Prophet to come, like him:

    14 "For these nations whom you shall dispossess listen to soothsayers and diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so.

    15The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet (Prophet) from the midst of your brethren like me [Moses]; to him you shall listen.

    16This is what you desired [and asked] of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die." {Deuteronomy 18:14-16 AB}

    The Apostle Peter made reference to the words of Moses, when he stated the following, as did the Apostle Steven:

    "Thus Moses said to the forefathers, The Lord God will raise up for you a Prophet from among your brethren as [He raised up] me; Him you shall listen to and understand by hearing and heed in all things whatever He tells you. 23And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to and understand by hearing and heed that Prophet shall be utterly exterminated from among the people." {Acts3:22,23 AMP}

    37 "It was this [very] Moses who said to the children of Israel, God will raise up for you a Prophet from among your brethren as He raised me up. 38 This is he who in the assembly in the wilderness (desert) was the go-between for the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai and our forefathers, and he received living oracles (words that still live) to be handed down to us."{Acts 7:37,38 AB}

    We all know, or should, that this Prophet, like Moses, was the Son of God, Jesus Christ! Anyone on the scene when he arrived, that did not accept him, or listen to him, would, as it said: "Be exterminated from among the people. That was true back then, it is equally as true now as well. Don't listen to him now, extermination is your future.

    We know, that when the Christ, the Prophet like Moses, arrived on the scene, through his precious blood he inaugurated the New Covenant by virtue of his Blood, doing away with the old Law Covenant and establishing the New Covenant. So, his followers at that time became ministers of the New Covenant. Everything had changed! Now, rather than it being earthly Mount Zion, it was, Heavenly Mount Zion! Rather than it being earthly Jerusalem, it was Heavenly New Jerusalem! It was now, the City of the living God. How do we know that? The reasons to follow:

    18"You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."

    22 "But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." {Hebrews 12:18-24 NIV}

    12 "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name." {Revelation 3:12 NIV}

    10 "And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, {New} Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God." {Revelation 21:10 NIV}

    As Christian's today; all of us; what is it, we now have to approach? What did Paul tell all of us? "You have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the City of the living God." This is where the mediator of the New Covenant resides, is it not? Why would we wish to go anywhere else, but to him, the mediator? Who is the head of this City of the living God? Who is it sends out these new laws from Zion? Who sends the word out of Jerusalem now? Is it not the Christ himself? Isaiah will tell you just how that comes to be:

    3 "Many peoples will come and say,
    "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
    to the house of the God of Jacob.
    He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths."
    The law will go out from Zion,
    the word of the LORD from Jerusalem." {Isaiah 2:3 NIV}

    Who was the one leader and teacher in the first Century? Was it not the Christ? Have his positions suddenly changed for some reason? Who was it that was head of the Christian Congregation in the first Century" Has someone else taken over those positions now, we don't know about? {Matthew 23:8-10} {1 Corinthians 11:3} Who does the Bible say, holds all authority on earth, now, at this time? As well in the first Century? Who did Jesus tells us held that all authority? Didn't he tell us that himself, in his following words?

    "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." {Matthew 28:18 NIV} Wasn't Paul in full agreeance with Jesus here? Look what he said:

    22 "God has put all things under the authority of Christ and has made him head over all things for the benefit of the church. 23 And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.: {{Ephesians 1:23 NLT} Paul had much more to say than just that, believe me, he did! Look what he reveals to us next:

    17 "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22nd God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way." {Ephesians 1:17-23 NIV}

    6 "For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.: {Isaiah 9:6 NIV}

    Doesn't this alone, tell us God's Organization to day is a Heavenly Organization, and not earthly at all?

    Being as he is exalted to the right hand of his Father in his glorified position, since the first Century, where else could God's Organization be today, if not a Heavenly one? Again, wasn't Law to go forth from Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem?

    Heavenly Mount Zion? Heavenly New Jerusalem? God's Organization couldn't be anywhere else, but in Heaven now! Reasonably! Now could it?

    When one compares the old Law Covenant to the New Covenant, a vast difference can be seen between the Two.The old Law contained over six hundred Laws and Commandments; approximately Ten Thousand words. Obeying them all, would be one thing; but just remembering that amount of Laws would be quite another, would it not? Note the difference here as we read Jeremiah 31:31-34 who foretold the New Covenant:

    31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
    "when I will make a new covenant
    with the house of Israel
    and with the house of Judah.

    32 It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their forefathers
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they broke my covenant,
    though I was a husband to them, "
    declares the LORD.

    33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
    after that time," declares the LORD.
    "I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.

    34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
    or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,"
    declares the LORD.
    "For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more." {Jeremiah 31:31-34 NIV}

    Now, those Laws are in the minds, and written on the hearts of those under this new covenant; the question now is; just how did these new laws come to be in the minds and put on the hearts of these that have been forgiven?

    Is it possible that some Religious Body on earth, that claimed appointment to offices that belonged solely to the Christ, could put those Laws in the minds of their followers; even down to writing them on their hearts? Could it be said, then, that the teaching of those Laws came out of Heavenly Mount Zion, that the word had gone forth out of Heavenly Jerusalem? There's one thing that puts a serious damper on this thinking! What is that, you may ask? It is this! The only possible way in this World those Laws could get into the minds of those under the new covenant; could be written on their hearts, would be, by the one in control of the Holy Spirit, using it as a teaching instrument to guide these ones into all truth. There is not a living human being on this earth capable of doing that! It could be done only by the Christ, in control of said Holy Spirit! Why? Because he IS Jehovah's Organization on earth today, right now! That is why no earthly Organization is needed today. Jehovah's Organization now, is a Heavenly Organization, and needs no earthly Organization to represent it!

    If anyone doesn't believe that, let them re-consider these following scriptures in John, which should be an aid in helping them to change their thinking. These are as follows:

    26 "I will send you the Spirit who comes from the Father and shows what is true. The Spirit will help you and will tell you about me. 27 Then you will also tell others about me, because you have been with me from the beginning." { John 15:26,27 CEV}

    Here Jesus tells us that he is the one in possession of this Spirit mentioned, that shows us what is true. We notice too, it will impell us to tell others about the Christ. Consider even more about this Spirit, nextly:

    15Jesus said to his disciples: "If you love me, you will do as I command. 16Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you. 17The Spirit will show you what is true. The people of this world cannot accept the Spirit, because they don't see or know him. But you know the Spirit, who is with you and will keep on living in you." {John 14:15-17 CEV}

    We see from this, that only those who do what Jesus commands will gain the Holy Spirit. We have to be doing it, before he asks his Father to send it. Loving him, that is! There's more:

    26 "But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you." {John 14:26 ASV}

    Without the aid of anyone one this earth we can be taught all the things we need to know about the Bible, even to the point of having things brought back to our minds, that we, perhaps, may have trouble in remembering. Even more yet to follow:

    13 "But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future]." {John 16:13 AB}

    Reasonably now! What Member of any of the Mainline Religions, of this entire World could guide us into all truth? Even more! Reveal what is to occur in the future? I'll answer that! Absolutely none of them! Why not? They do not possess the Holy Spirit, is why not! Jesus told us very clearly that they could not accept the Holy Spirit! That they didn't see him, or know him. One more to cement my reasoning:

    27 "But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, soyou don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ." {1 John 2:27 NLT}

    These ones today who have the Holy Spirit living in them, need no earthly Organizatization to guide and direct them, it is all done now from the invisible Spirit Realm, by means, as I have shown, by the Holy Spirit, in the hands of the Christ; who is still the one leader, and one teacher, of all of his true followers. His teaching is all done now by means of Revelations from the Spirit Realm, just as it was done after his ascension. As I will now show:

    12 "I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ." {Galatians 1:12 NLT} I'll go on:

    3 "The mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have briefly written above."{Ephesians 3:3 HCSB} Consider also the Revelation given to John! The entire Twenty-Two chapters in exactly the same way as Paul received his teachings:

    "Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place; and he signified [it], sending by his angel, to his bondman John" {Revelation 1:1 DT} ...

    Why was all of this possible; the answer to which, shows beyond all doubt, that God needs no Organization on earth now, as many make claim. What is the answer, you're wondering? The following, from scripture:

    33 "Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." {Acts 2:33 NIV}

    That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22nd God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way." {Ephesians 1:17-23 NIV}

    9 "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father."
    {Philippians 2:9-11 NIV}

    Where was the highest place? At the right hand of his Father, correct? So, where does that tell us God's Organization is today? Of course, in the invisible Heavenly Spirit Realm! Correct?

    27 "It was by faith that Moses left the land of Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger. He kept right on going because he kept his eyes on the one who is invisible." {Hebrews 11:27 NLT}

    Can we not do likewise now? Can we not focus our eyes on the one who is invisible, and be taught by the head of God's Heavenly Organization, by means of the Holy Spirit only in his hands?

    Let's face the facts! No Religious Leader, of whatever denomination, is in control of the Holy Spirit, and in association with any of them will gain you absolutely nothing. In association with the Christ though, will gain you everything, because he is the only one with everything to give.

    Does God need an Organization on earth now? Why would he?

    Wouldn't Jesus have known, being as he was the head now, of Jehovah's New Heavenly arrangement of things, that to be in association with a large Organization,wasn't even necessary?

    Wouldn't that be the reason, he said the following:?

    20 "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."{Matthew 18:20 NIV}

    No! No earthly Organization at all! No longer needed!

    20 "In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." {Luke 22:20 DT} Wannabe

    How did the one {Moses} that foretold a Prophet like him feel about this matter? Just in which direction would his eyes be fastened on? Let's look:

    Since the first Century the Christ has been in his glorified exalted position, at his Fathers right hand, the head of the New Heavenly Mount Zion! The head of Heavenly New Jerusalem; the head of the City of God, and with all of that in full control of the main principle teaching instrument, that enables him, to send Law out of Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of New Jerusalem.

    In the light of these following words, who should we believe heads God's Organisation today; and where should we believe that Organization is now?

    Did not the Prophet Isaiah speak about this exalted position of the Christ in his Prophecy, in these next following words?:

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Does God need an Organization on earth today?

    I don't think 'God' needs it. I think man does.

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    Man this post must have taken you forever! Great job! And no, "God" does not NEED anything. I'm with Heaven, people NEED something like this, at least they think they do!........wf

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin
    : Does God need an Organization on earth today?

    No he's got lots of those already, but if he ever comes for a visit he'll need some clothes, a bed, car, and some spending money.

  • tjlibre
    tjlibre

    No! He does not.

    I’d like to add:

    1) Before the formation of the nation of Israel, God dealt with people as individuals. NO ORGANIZATION.

    2) Moses and Joshua served as leaders to guide the Israelites and establish the nation under the clear, evidentand unquestionable direction from God. NO ORGANIZATION.

    3) Israel was a nation, a country, a community, a theocracy. There was no other king, but Jehovah. Elders and priests were appointed to provide services to the community; they were not in a position of authority to rule over the nation. They were servants. NO ORGANIZATION.

    4) Jehovah provided 12 Judges from all the tribes of Israel to defend and deliver the nation from foreign invaders. NO ORGANIZATION.

    · The Israelites asked Gideon to be their “King” he declined the offer and said…Judges 8:23 Gideon said to them, “I will not rule over you, and my son will not rule over you; the LORD will rule over you.” (ESV).

    · Judges 9 shows that things got really bad for the nation when they elected Abimelech as their king. He was not appointed by God, he appointed himself and the nation supported him to their demise.

    5) According to the Hebrew tradition, Samuel was the last Judge. The people again asked for a human/visible king. God did not like the idea, and was displeased with the nation’s demand. 1 Samuel 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them .

    6) God gave them Saul then David. Thus the beginning of what might resemble an Organization. But it was flawed, because it was depended on imperfect humans. The nation had about 24 kings, some good and some bad, and even the good ones made mistakes.

    7) In Jesus time, Israel was under the control of a foreign king. But the Priests, the Pharisees, and the Elders acted for the nation of Israel as God’s representatives. But as the new covenant shows, that system was abolished, these representatives not longer enjoyed Jehovah’s approval.

    8) We are under a New Covenant. Our leader is the Son Jesus Christ, with whom we can enjoy a personal relationship. Our loyalty is to him not to a so called earthly Organization.

    God needs no particular person, church, denomination, creed, or organization to accomplish His purpose. He will make use of those, in all their diversity, who are ready to be used, but will leave to themselves those who labor for their own ends” -Daniel Taylor’s “The Myth of Certainty” pg. 30.

    Religious Organizations are not necessarily bad when the motive is to be of service to humanity. The problem lies when the Organizations set themselves as rulers above the people that caused them to be in existence.

  • rmnnoute
    rmnnoute

    God does not need anything. But none of us can say what he wants.

    The Christian congregation of the first century was an organization.

    The New Testament tells Christians, who have God's spirit, to also "obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. " -- Hebrews 13:17, New International Version

    "Your leaders" is, in the Greek, το?ς ?γουμ?νοις ?μ?ν, and can also be translated as: "those governing you."

    There was definitely organization and structure among the early Christians, because they had a significant work to do, assigned to them by the Lord Jesus Christ.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    If God ever wanted an earthly organization, he'd have me running it. I don't, so he doesn't.

    Farkel

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin
    Does God need an Organization on earth today?

    God needs an organization so he can be tax exempt in most countries, have his servants print literature, buy up real estate, torture people who disagree like they did during the inquisitions, sacrifice animals, and tell superstitious kings how to run their empires.

    Today these organizations need to incorporate, form bylaws, and keep themselves fiscally healthy for his glory. Amen!

  • tjlibre
    tjlibre

    rmnnoute - I conclude by your comment that you are a WT apologist/loyalist. If that is the case…you should not be here in the first place. You should be obeying the commands from your master’s in Brooklyn NY.

    But if you decide to read….

    Anyone who takes the lead in a Christian congregation has to be faithful to the teachings of the Christ and the Apostles. Any apparent authority is limited to the service that they provide to the cong. Look at this comment from Wesley’s note on Hebr 13:17

    Wesley’s Note: Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you - The word implies also, that lead or guide you; namely, in truth and holiness. And submit yourselves - Give up (not your conscience or judgment, but) your own will, in all things purely indifferent.

    The GB is not leading in truth and holiness, they are a bunch of control hungry charlatans. My conscience no longer allows me to follow them.

    Also, take a closer look at these passages:

    1 Cor. 1:24: But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together with you so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm. (NLT)

    Math 20:25-28 But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people , and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave . For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (NLT)

    1Pet 5: 3.4: Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example.And when the Great Shepherd appears, you will receive a crown of never-ending glory and honor. (NLT)

    Could you consciously deny that the WT/GB is “lording over” the JW? under the claim that they represent Jehovah’s Organization on earth.

    They want you to sacrifice your energy, your youth, you mind, your spirit before the altar of a soulless Corporation. And that my friend is no Christian leadership.

  • Sapphy
    Sapphy

    Though-provoking original post.

    But my initial reaction to "does God need an organization today" was - well he could probably get away with a really good web page, in this day & age.

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