Are you a victim of the ROYAL SCAM? (page 2)

Pistoff

Laws without enforcement are not laws, they are morals, or mores.

Someone said:

When morals are suffficient laws are unnecessary; when morals are not honored, laws are unenforceable.

Not sure I agree with it, but it is interesting.

Without laws, most people will do what is good for themselves and/or society, and refrain from doing what is bad for themselves and/or society. True, people have to learn what is good and what is bad. When you add laws, there is a pretty good chance of forcing people to do what is bad for themselves and society, and outlawing what is good for self and society. The 55 MPH speed limit is an example--the best speed for society is the maximum safe, reasonable, and prudent speed at any given time and condition (otherwise, you waste time and resources on motel rooms, taking longer for goods to cross the country, and "Are we there yet".

What religion does is creates some of the worst laws of all. The Old Testament is full of stupid laws--stoning people to death, mandatory wastes of food and resources, and sacrifices to shadow the great sacrifice are all wasteful. Why kill an animal just because a person had a natural body function? Why kill an animal because of a sin? Now you have two problems--the one that was created by making a natural act a "sin", and the death of the animal. And traveling to a temple is a waste of time--you could not do 80 MPH in those days to reach the temple in 45 minutes to an hour.

So-called Christian religions are a complete scam. They claim Jesus died to sacrifice for our sins. Yet, Christianity is full of additional sacrifices. Catholics are now starting to observe Lent--a 40 day period of sacrificing to God something they enjoy, to re-enact "a perfect sacrifice, to which nothing ever need be added". Other Christian denominations have their own penances and sacrifices. All Christian denominations are required to give money (supposedly to support churches and missionaries). The witlesses are additionally required to offer themselves up as a living sacrifice (and therefore rejecting the sacrifice that is supposedly perfect, to which nothing ever need be added).

It isn't just sacrifices. Jesus actually did not offer up his life as a sacrifice for our sins. He was actually trying to set people free from Jehovah (exactly as Satan tried). And he died trying. What happened is that Jehovah used Paul to twist Jesus' message. Now, Jesus' dying trying to set us free from that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag becomes a "ransom sacrifice, paying for your sins". And, instead of doing your own thinking and deciding what is good and bad for yourself, Jesus' message becomes doing exactly as Jesus told you. Now, instead of everything you do being what the Jewish Sanhedrin tells you to, everything you do is what Jesus tells you to--and the church leaders are the ones to interpret what Jesus tells you. I could just see Jesus ransacking those churches and Kingdumb Hells, lambasting the leaders for misrepresenting his words, and trying to get people to think for themselves.

OnTheWayOut

That's a good answer, Mr. Wizard.

moshe

I too, think Jesus as more of a reformer who wanted to scale back the Temple system and the big business that had grown up around the sacrifices. His followers wanted him to be their Messsiah and take it all the way- freedom from the Romans was their ulterior motive. When you are under the foot of the Roman soldier, it's hard to believe your god is keeping up his end of the covenant bargain.

AK - Jeff

Interesting thread.

Jeff

THE GLADIATOR

Laws are made by people in power. The laws then have to be regularly enforced so that they act as a deterrent. If those in power never enforce the laws they have made, in time the laws become useless and the population assume that they are no longer in force. More than this, they see the law maker as weak and unable to maintain the laws he has made. Governments succeed or fail to the degree that they can enforce their will and laws.

Thousands of years of human history shows us this reality in action. It would be pointless for a supreme being to make absolute laws and then do nothing to enforce them. That would create a worse state of affairs than not making laws of any kind. Even when those in power cause the death and suffering to millions of people, there is no intervention or law enforcement from a supreme being.

The only logical conclusion is that no universal laws have been made in the first place. There has never been a universal code of conduct that has been accepted by every nation.
Whether a supreme being God exists is not the issue here. What is clear is that no such supreme being has operated through the making and enforcement of laws, throughout the whole of human history.
Once that concept is grasped it becomes possible to see what forces are really in operation throughout the universe. We as humans are on a journey of discovery. Laws are made by each society as they are deemed helpful or necessary, either for those in power or the population in general.

Terry

My own take on law and morality is one of Practicality.

If you live by yourself your actions and decisions impact YOU only.

As you associate with others an inevitable conflict occurs.

Morality becomes a very practical matter. What you practice (what you do; how you behave) impacts the "other" and they will let you

know how far to go before blowback happens.

As a family, tribe, nation arises the complexity of human interaction starts to blur "proper" behavior. Why?

Other people. Hell is other people. (Thank you, Sarte).

Getting along with other people is hell.

But, what you will be ALLOWED to do only goes so far without "others" drawing the line and taking action to stop an offender.

LAW inevitably is about STOPPING behavior. It accomplishes this ultimately by THREAT. Law says: or ELSE.

Good people are people who won't willfully harm others. They don't need to fear just laws.

Bad people don't concern themselves with the welfare of others and aren't likely to heed any threat (by law or otherwise.)

Practically speaking: it takes a degree of external awareness to flourish inside of any sized society.

Impractical people are the focus of Law and its penalty.

I'm not cynical or down on "PEOPLE". I'm aware that a certain number of society's citizens are not intelligent enough to CARE about anybody (even themselves, alas.)

Are you a victim of the ROYAL SCAM?