empathy - for jw is this possible?

by Married to the Mob 10 Replies latest social family

Married to the Mob

The night before my wife went to Dallas on a 2 week course I asked her a question.
"While your away, think about how I will feel going to my brother's wedding on my own?"
To cut a long story short my brother can be a bit of a obnoxious git at times. He is the golden boy for my parents and thinks like my parents which is not always a good thing. 2 years ago was not a good for year for me, and I am in no ways perfect. My drinking, travelling for work, being in an affectionless marriage, combined with deeper roooted issues all lead to me getting into trouble. Since then I have been in Therapy, my life in someways is back on track, otherways not so much! Needless to say my parents hopped straight into the fray with how awful I had been and my brother well he rememinded me how mum and dad are right my version of past events are all off and everything is my fault.
These comments hurt me deeply but wife pretty much decided to cut my side of the family off and me not speaking to my brother for 9 months (his choice). When we last saw my parents (last april), my wife and mum got into a monster arguement which again had been seeded by my brother and ended up with my wife saying she wanted nothing to do with them. Now when I speak to my parents my wife is always out or asking me to make excuses for her not talking on the phone. Fortunately my parents haven't pushed too hard to talk to her. Whilst my parents whitewash everything to make it all seem ok, they hold everything as ammo for an arguement!
Anyway, my brother is getting married! And despite a few mind games from him which were to be expected, we have been invited to go. My wife is NOT going, she flat out refuses. On some level I don't blame her, its not exactly going to be fun watching my mother gush over her daughter in law when she could barely be happy for my wife at our wedding and he still hurts from what my brother said before.
However I can't cut off my family, my dad did it to his brother for reasons I will never understand, and despite everything that has happened and my own personal issues, I would like to see what should be the happiest day for my brother. In light of everything that has happened and the past my brother and I are never going to be best buddies or see each other on a regular basis, however I am not going to cut him off, it doesn't solve anything and just makes thing harder in the future.
Well the 2 weeks have passed, the MIL didn't die, the world didn't collapse although admittedly I was ready to throttle the MIL when I came home to find her armed with a screw driver trying to take apart the furnace to "clean" it........while it still running
Has my wife thought about the question i posed to her........NO!
her comments were:
Why do I need to be there.
You'll know loads of people there, you will be fine
I really don't want to go
Are you afraid to be with your parents on your own?
Apart from the last comment which is more of a question its clear that my feelings don't matter or she can't empathise with how I might be feeling.
Is there a bit of borg brainwashing that switches off the ability to empathise and that cutting off people doesn't help?
When this is added in with the total lack of affection, I am feeling a bit lonely.
MTTM
Open mind

Well, you could:
1. Seek professional counseling, or
2. Pray more, study more, go in service more, never miss a meeting and volunteer your services to the elders however they see fit.
I'd recommend #1.
To directly address your question though, I think you may have a valid point about JWs and empathy. From childhood JWs are trained to put a bit of callous around their heart in order to deal with Disfellowshipping and with the idea that their nice neighbors are going to die soon.
om
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VIII

Well, there are two dynamics: b0rg and Inlaws. Totally separate, yet, combined. They make for an impossible combo.
So, first off, you have to realise if your parents and your wife don't get along and/or like each other that is not going to change. Going to a wedding is not going to make it nice, make it better or make up for any of the underhanded below the belt slights your parents have done and said to her.
And, I guarantee you, they have said and done some nasty shit to her. They will and might have denied it, but, I would bet they have made her about as welcome as the Pope at a JW Funeral. Which would indicate her unwillingness to go to the wedding.
So, you and your wife have to talk about her feelings on why she feels the way she does. Yes, talk. You need to listen. Have some empathy for her.
I am the wife in this scenario, that is how I know about this stuff.
As for the JW stuff, if your wife has stopped believing, you are lucky. The fact that she is backing you up with disagreements with your family means she is on your side. She wants you on her side when your family turns on her. Does that make sense?
As for you and your brother not being best buds and pals--since he is in the b0rg and probably will be for life and is marrying a b0rg girl (I'm guessing here--sorry), you and he will always have an on/off relationship. But, you still need to keep those lines open, in case he leaves and wants someone to talk to. But, your wife comes first. You married her. She should be your best friend/confidant.
You both sound like couples therapy could really help.
I hope this helps a little. Good luck.
Married to the Mob

first off, myself and my side of the family are not in the borg! Never have been, never will be! My parents are Daily Mail readers!
My wife is in the borg! Yes she married a worldly, however her mom who lives with us is hardcore r&f. She might be 84 going 85, but she is still putting in her field service! My wife while she likes some of the finer things of worldy life, she is still in the borg and the mentality shows.
Have my parents been nasty, yes! My mum's idea of an xmas present this year to my wife was the worse necklace I have ever seen. IF it cost her five quid I would say she had been robbed! But lets be fair, my mum has been a bully her whole life, a trait she learnt from her mum, this I discovered from my uncle who was no end of support to us and helped me understand the ways of my mum.
I have always supported my wife in arguements against my family. Even when we have had a game plan to deal with my parents and she (my wife) has veered big style from the plan, i have always supported her.
My wife's feeling are anger, at my parents for the way they behaved over our wedding, the way they behaved when we moved to canada, the way my brother and his wife to be are treated by them and the way my brother has behaved. Do I understand her anger, absolutely, do I feel her anger, yes as I have the same issues with them.
It will not be nice to see my mum beam with joy over her new DIL when she could barely smile at my wedding. I have considered not going, but what does that solve? nothing, all i would end up doing is burning bridges. Am I pleased for my brother, yes, I hope he and his wife will be very happy.
If my wife doesn't come, I am going to have to answer the questions from friends and family over where she is, deal with the comments from my parents, and whilst I will know plenty of people there, I will still be on my own. And at the end of the day when the wedding and the party is all over, i am going to end up in a hotel room on my own.
But I should be used to this, there have been a number of events where she has decided not to come leaving me high and dry to go on my own. xmas parties, evenings out. But this time its a wedding.......
The funny thing is that we have been seeing a marriage councilor for a year. I am learning, I need to communicate my feelings more, empathise more but she seems to be just going through the motions. If the councilling was to work, that would mean thinking and doing for herself.
undercover

I'll start with this question:
Is there a bit of borg brainwashing that switches off the ability to empathise and that cutting off people doesn't help?
I'd say that the inability to empathize and sympathize with non-JWs is a by-product of years of indoctrination. The world is filled with wicked people. The world is doomed to destruction. Don't associate with worldly people. Fear worldly people.
- Which ironically enough flys in the face of reason when it comes to JWs professing wanting to help people survive Armageddon. You love them enough to sell them magazines but not enough to empathize with their plights...go figure.
So, yes the brainwashing of the bORg does impact how JWs think about worldly people and how they react to them.
However, when it comes to family sometimes the JW aspect of it doesn't always matter. If any family is dysfunctional enough it drives away certain members of it. There are members of my family that I have to avoid...they're just nuts. There are aspects of my wife's family that irritates me at times, but I just grin and bear it as long as they're not too loopy. Like they say, you can choose your friends but not your family.
As for your brother's wedding...If I were in your shoes, I would go - if for no other reason to not cause drama by not being there. This is your brother's wedding...this is his day. I wouldn't pick this occasion as the event to try to prove a point by being conspicously absent. It's not about you, it's about him. Yea, it might be stressful and disturbing to a point but these are the occasions that I like to prove that I'm above all the pettyness that the rest of the family likes to show.
I would ask my wfie to go...to support me, if nothing else. It's not like we're going to be the center of attention...we're not. Odds are most people won't pay that much attention to us. Show up, be seen, give well wishes, take part in family photos or whatever, enjoy the reception as a couple, then leave. If she flat refuses to go...and I've been in that situation, I usually just make up an excuse. It's not the time to cause a disruption in proclaiming her true stance. Better to tell a white lie and let them think what they want.
Hope it works out okay for you...
VIII

My apologies, I thought your family was in, including your wife, let me start over:
first off, myself and my side of the family are not in the borg! Never have been, never will be! My parents are Daily Mail readers!
You lucky man!!!
My wife is in the borg! Yes she married a worldly, however her mom who lives with us is hardcore r&f. She might be 84 going 85, but she is still putting in her field service! My wife while she likes some of the finer things of worldy life, she is still in the borg and the mentality shows.
I was out when I met my husband. My MIL was (she died this past spring) hardcore Catholic and despised that I wasn't. That is one thing that she never, ever, got over. My mom is hardcore r&f, though, thank God, she doesn't live with us. I would have killed her if she had. :-)
Have my parents been nasty, yes! My mum's idea of an xmas present this year to my wife was the worse necklace I have ever seen. IF it cost her five quid I would say she had been robbed! But lets be fair, my mum has been a bully her whole life, a trait she learnt from her mum, this I discovered from my uncle who was no end of support to us and helped me understand the ways of my mum.
My MIL always gave me crap at Xmas and on Bdays. However, I was thrilled just to get gifts. After being raised as a JW, getting gifts is nice. From anyone. Even crap is nice when you grow up getting nothing. My MIL is also the bully of the family. My BIL was bullied totally and lived with her until a few years ago. He never had a girlfriend and never learned how to deal with girls. She, too, learned it from an uncle. Uncle Leo. Weird, huh?
I have always supported my wife in arguements against my family. Even when we have had a game plan to deal with my parents and she (my wife) has veered big style from the plan, i have always supported her.
My wife's feeling are anger, at my parents for the way they behaved over our wedding, the way they behaved when we moved to canada, the way my brother and his wife to be are treated by them and the way my brother has behaved. Do I understand her anger, absolutely, do I feel her anger, yes as I have the same issues with them.
Your backing your wife is critical. I hope she realizes this. If not, she needs to read some advice columns. Many husbands don't support their wives when the family is nasty to the wife. I applaud your doing that.
I'm sure your parents were partly reacting to your wife being a JW and to your moving away. They are probably terrified that you might become one and or never have children. I am talking from experience here. My husband and I moved all over the States and my MIL blamed *ME* even though it was for his career.
My MIL always treated my BIL better also. He was her baby boy. My husband was OK with it. It annoyed me because I knew my husband accomplished so much more. In the end, it doesn't matter. I know it and so does my husband. He knows he accomplished a lot. He knows I love him and he is a great person even without her approval. I hope your wife loves you for what you've done and who you are.
It will not be nice to see my mum beam with joy over her new DIL when she could barely smile at my wedding. I have considered not going, but what does that solve? nothing, all i would end up doing is burning bridges. Am I pleased for my brother, yes, I hope he and his wife will be very happy.
My BIL never got married and I always wished he would have. I know, that no matter who my BIL married, my MIL would like them more. I'm OK with that because she and I always clashed. I know why. Perhaps it's age. Perhaps it's because she's dead. ;-) I do think you should go. Take the high road. You need a relationship with your brother. That is blood. My BIL and husband will always have that.
If my wife doesn't come, I am going to have to answer the questions from friends and family over where she is, deal with the comments from my parents, and whilst I will know plenty of people there, I will still be on my own. And at the end of the day when the wedding and the party is all over, i am going to end up in a hotel room on my own.
If your wife doesn't come it will reinforce the opinion that JWs are small minded and your parents will tell people you might be having marital problems. I would do anything to get your wife to go. Promise her you will not leave her for long. Promise her you won't make her sit with Aunt Matilda. What ever. Just get her to go. You'll both be happier if she goes. Get her a gift. Bribe her.
But I should be used to this, there have been a number of events where she has decided not to come leaving me high and dry to go on my own. xmas parties, evenings out. But this time its a wedding.......
The funny thing is that we have been seeing a marriage councilor for a year. I am learning, I need to communicate my feelings more, empathise more but she seems to be just going through the motions. If the councilling was to work, that would mean thinking and doing for herself.
I am so sorry. I know it is harder for men to communicate. It is easy in print on this board, for some. In face to face, it is like pulling teeth for most husbands to talk. I am married to one who thinks that talking is comprised of a grunt. Every once in a while he will really decide to talk and we will talk for 1-2 hours. He'll do most of it. I sit and listen. It's amazing.
BTW, I have been out of the b0rg for 25+ years. My Mom is still in.
VIII

One more thing, regarding empathy--personally, I think the longer JWs are in the less and less empathy they have for anyone outside the b0rg. That is the whole problem for people looking in from the outside.
They see these clean cut, neat people come to their doors who, if reality is looked at, are counting them as walking dead. Armageddon and all.
They have no empathy for people that reject The Truth. Once you reject it, you are dead in their eyes. That is the problem. That's the dilemma they face when it is family they may care for, yet, who may have rejected The Truth.
Does that make sense?
Finally-Free

I get the feeling you won't have any fun at this wedding if you go. Why don't you just do something fun for yourself instead? Your brother, who didn't speak to you for 9 months, has no right to be offended if you decide not to go. Just send a card with a few bucks as a gift and do your own thing elsewhere.
Sometimes we just have to tell ourselves, to hell with the wife. To hell with the family. Tonight is for ME!
It's essential to our own well being to do that once in a while, and no one will do it for you.
W
Scully

The way your family treats you and your wife is inappropriate. Sure, they're your family, but you aren't obligated to them if they treat you like crap. If they were your neighbours or workmates and they treated you like crap and then invited you to one of their family events, you wouldn't be obligated to go.
Even if they promise that they'll be on their best behaviour, it will still be a slap in the face if they celebrate your brother's wedding appropriately after they created a fiasco for your wife and you at your wedding.
I agree with Finally-Free. Send an appropriate/tasteful gift and send your regrets about attending.
My question to you is: Why do you feel that you must subject yourself to their emotional abuse or expect that your wife will want to join you in being subjected to their emotional abuse?
undercover

Reading FF's and Scully's posts I see the sense in what they say and in the right circumtances I would agree 100% but this quote from MttM stood out to me:
However I can't cut off my family, my dad did it to his brother for reasons I will never understand, and despite everything that has happened and my own personal issues, I would like to see what should be the happiest day for my brother. In light of everything that has happened and the past my brother and I are never going to be best buddies or see each other on a regular basis, however I am not going to cut him off, it doesn't solve anything and just makes thing harder in the future.
Based on those sentiments, I still recommend going...if you really want to... and asking your wife to put aside the differences for one day, if possible. If she doesn't want to go, don't make her, but don't let her talk you out of going if you really, really want to go.
In the end, you have to do what you think is right. But once you make that decision, whether to go or not, then don't back down from it. Don't second guess it. Don't let anyone put you down for what you decided. You owe no one an explanation.
I hope that the different viewpoints we've given you has helped...maybe it gave you something to consider that you hadn't before. In any event, whatever you choose, good luck and keep us posted.

empathy - for jw is this possible?

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