Jehovah's "name" real or not?

by highdose 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Look up Jehovah in the Reasoning book. They admit it there somewhere, before they steamroll that fact with a bunch of BS.

    The GB is stuck with "Jehovah" as much as they are with Russell. To deal with it, they make it a translation issue, and say that in English, its Jehovah.

    ....although

    JEHOVAH IS A MISTRANSLATION (as Outlaw alluded to)

    Here's the rub, something to think about. Get your big reference NWT, and look up Jehovah in the index. There is an entire article dedicated to a theological lie. Read it, understand it, and you will know all you need to know about how dishonest the GB is.

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    You can call me Stan ..... or you can call me Bill.....or you can call me Frank, just don't call me Jehovah

  • agonus
    agonus

    "they admit that Yahweh is probably more accurate than Jehovah."

    Funny that, I told my elders exactly the same thing... they called me an apostate...

  • villabolo
    villabolo

    Wobble: "The "Name" of god is a HUGE subject Highdose."

    But much "huger" than anyone so far seems to understand. Pronunciation is irrelevevant because there is such a thing as "Yod He Waw He" in Hebrew and that makes it real enough regardless of what the original vowels were. By the way, Jesus' name was actually pronounced "Yeshua" in Hebrew/Aramaic; "Iesous" in the ancient Greek language; phonetically pronounced "Hehsoos" in Spanish, which is as close to the Latin language as I can get (note: it's actually spelled Jesus like English); and finally pronounced "Jeesus" in English. Pronunciations of any word mutates through different language filters.

    The real isssue with the reality of God's name has to do with the false distinction, also emphasized by the Watchtower, that words like God and Lord are titles while Jehovah (YHWH) is a personal name. That is not true. Anyone who delves into the subject a little more deeply soon finds out that all of those words are the names of different gods! How can that be? As scholars explain, the names have been amalgamated and the personalities of these different gods conflated, mixed into one identity. Example: Yahweh Elohim, a composite of El and the Elohim (literal plural) having been a different god(s) in the past than Yahweh.

    But why are the identities of these gods being mixed in the first place? Complex reasons, but it boils down to this. Different cultures, that worship different gods are being politically joined. Since experience has shown that you don't mess with peoples gods (too much) yet you need religious unity as a prelude to political unity (in ancient states) you simply mix in both names and as well as traditions and folk tales, then claim that they refer to the same god and set of traditions and folk tales. This gives you unity, hopefully.

    This is what appears to have happened in ancient Israel. I highly recommend the book Out Of The Desert? by William Steibing to give you an idea of what was most probably going on in ancient Israel based on documented examples of ancient Egypt and China where similar things happened to their god/s when the populations were (against their will) unified into one empire.

    Such an example was the god Amon-Ra, a composite god from the deities of southern and northern Egypt created in an effort to "unite" the country.

    Examples of folk tales being amalgamated can be found in the Hebrew Scriptures under the "Elohist" and "Yahwist" traditions. This is based on the well known fact that there are "couplets", nearly identical stories (regarding the Patriarchs) that seem to be repeated twice, but with different details and, more importantly, an emphasis on the name of either Elohim or Yahweh depending on which story. This confusing repetition of stories would only make sense if these Patriarchs were held in common by both cultures but their stories diverged. Then each culture would want to retain their version of the story with the name of their respective gods. The priesthood would cater to their demands while they would insist that they are the same god-Yahweh Elohim.

    This mish mashing of names and redundant stories are the real story behind the "reality" of god's name/s.

    villabolo

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Hello, I'm Bob Dobbs. Some of you know me as "Jehovah," but that name is inaccurately translated. In English, the correct pronunciation of my name is "Bob Dobbs." You may serve me and pray to me, and I may or may not acknowledge your prayers and service as it suits me. I've heard many people complain because I appear to be smoking a pipe. Let me remind you which of us is the deity here. I am what I am, and I do as I please. Got that? Besides, my pipe isn't filled with tobacco, but with salvia divinorum. It keeps me on a spiritual level, nearly invisible.

    OK, look, I gotta go now. Just remember that you may have no other gods before me.

    Peace out,

    - Bob Dobbs, your creator

  • Truthexplorer
    Truthexplorer

    HighDose,

    You will see from most of the comments on this thread that it is unclear as to what precisely is Gods name. It is ambiguous to say the least. No one knows for certain exactly how it should be pronounced- not even the sole channel on earth today (The FDS) -and that says something in iself.

    I follow the simple example that Jesus mentioned as to how we address God/Elohim. You can then pray to him to your hearts content without the worry that you are calling him by the wrong name. Have a look at Mat 5:9. Jesus said that when we pray we should say...'our Father'...... That makes perfect sense to address him as such, considering that we are unsure as to how his name should be properly pronounced. But as the rest of the scripture says...let his name be sanctified....One day it will be sanctified. Satan has done his utmost in this sytem to confuse everyone, but one day all things will be made absolutely clear.

    TE

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    I thought that the name Jehovah came around the 5th century, but regardless of when it came to be, is most definately is not God's name. The 4 letter unpronounceable tetragramatron [spelling?] was used because the Lord's name was never supposed to be spoken. Both Yawey and Jehovah were the result of adding the vowels from lord [adoney] and placing them between the tetragramatron. Atleast, that's what I seem to remember reading. Although it may have been a catholic who coined the term, it is not a catholic teaching. As a matter of fact, the catholic church will not use it because it is a false name or rather a hybrid nickname.

  • LUKEWARM
    LUKEWARM
    Has the WTBS ever addmitted any where that gods name is not actauly known?

    *** it-2 p. 5 Jehovah ***

    Correct Pronunciation of the Divine Name. “Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, although “Yahweh” is favored by most Hebrew scholars. The oldest Hebrew manuscripts present the name in the form of four consonants, commonly called the Tetragrammaton (from Greek te·tra-, meaning “four,” and gram′ma, “letter”). These four letters (written from right to left) are ???? and may be transliterated into English as YHWH (or, JHVH).

    The Hebrew consonants of the name are therefore known. The question is, Which vowels are to be combined with those consonants? Vowel points did not come into use in Hebrew until the second half of the first millennium C.E. (See HEBREW, II [Hebrew Alphabet and Script].) Furthermore, because of a religious superstition that had begun centuries earlier, the vowel pointing found in Hebrew manuscripts does not provide the key for determining which vowels should appear in the divine name.

    Since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-known form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation. If such a change were made, then, to be consistent, changes should be made in the spelling and pronunciation of a host of other names found in the Scriptures: Jeremiah would be changed to Yir·meyah′, Isaiah would become Yesha?·ya′hu, and Jesus would be either Yehoh·shu′a? (as in Hebrew) or I·e·sous′ (as in Greek). The purpose of words is to transmit thoughts; in English the name Jehovah identifies the true God, transmitting this thought more satisfactorily today than any of the suggested substitutes.

    *** na p. 7 God’s Name—Its Meaning and Pronunciation ***

    How Is God’s Name Pronounced?

    The truth is, nobody knows for sure how the name of God was originally pronounced . Why not? Well, the first language used in writing the Bible was Hebrew, and when the Hebrew language was written down, the writers wrote only consonants—not vowels. Hence, when the inspired writers wrote God’s name, they naturally did the same thing and wrote only the consonants.

    Where, though, did pronunciations like Yahweh come from? These are forms that have been suggested by modern scholars trying to deduce the original pronunciation of God’s name. Some—though not all—feel that the Israelites before the time of Jesus probably pronounced God’s name Yahweh. But no one can be sure. Perhaps they pronounced it that way, perhaps not.

    Nevertheless, many prefer the pronunciation Jehovah. Why? Because it has a currency and familiarity that Yahweh does not have. Would it not, though, be better to use the form that might be closer to the original pronunciation? Not really, for that is not the custom with Bible names.

    Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally , this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. It identifies the Creator, the living God, the Most High to whom Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”—Matthew 6:9.

    *** rs p. 195 Jehovah ***

    Which form of the divine name is correct—Jehovah or Yahweh?

    No human today can be certain how it was originally pronounced in Hebrew . Why not? Biblical Hebrew was originally written with only consonants, no vowels. When the language was in everyday use, readers easily provided the proper vowels. In time, however, the Jews came to have the superstitious idea that it was wrong to say God’s personal name out loud, so they used substitute expressions. Centuries later, Jewish scholars developed a system of points by which to indicate which vowels to use when reading ancient Hebrew, but they put the vowels for the substitute expressions around the four consonants representing the divine name. Thus the original pronunciation of the divine name was lost.

    Many scholars favor the spelling “Yahweh,” but it is uncertain and there is not agreement among them. On the other hand, “Jehovah” is the form of the name that is most readily recognized, because it has been used in English for centuries and preserves, equally with other forms, the four consonants of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton.

  • worldtraveller
    worldtraveller

    Since no has actually spoken to God, I suspect it is not a name but in fact a label someone created. Fake.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Many scholars favour the spelling "Yahweh" but it is uncertain and their is not agreement among them.On the other hand "Jehovah" is the form of the name that is most readily recognized,because it has been used in english for centuries and preserves,equally with other forms,the four consonants of the Hebrew Tetragramaton

    Thanks lukewarm

    JW`s make a big deal about altering their beleifs when new light is shed on very incidental things as well as what some would say are significant beleifs.Certainly with Gods name, that is something that is all important to a people who supposedly represent "A people for his Name" it is incosistent to stick to a tradition that was introduced by christendom,centuries ago.And yes to be true witnesses JW`s should be the only ones to truly represent "truth" by correctly identifying God as Yahweh YHWH,Jerimiah Yir-meyah,Jesus Yeho-shu`a etc.

    smiddy

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