How do you respond to: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one?"

by darthfader 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    Actually, it quite a shame that GOD let that happen.

    Supposedly it's his planet, his universe, his creation.

    Seems he could have nipped it in the bud, instead of letting

    millions of people suffer and die at the hands of the "wicked one"

    That "wicked one" is very powerful.

    Why did god let this wicked one have power?

    It's like letting someone take over your home and totally control your belongings and and loved ones

    when you have all the means to not let that happen but you just do?????

    Makes absolutely no sense.

    purps

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    That this system is in Satan's control.

    What System would that be?..

    The Metric System..

    The Sewer system..

    The Digestive system..

    Or that "this or that" is put here to test our faith.

    The WBT$ was put here to test my Patience,for WBT$ Stupidity..

    I found out I don`t have any Patience for WBT$ Stupidity..

    Thanks WBT$!!..

    Idiot`s! ..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • My Struggle
    My Struggle

    There was a JW on facebook that I was talking to. He talked about the subject of satan being the current ruler and Christ authority being relative or subjected to satan's current power. Here is my response. Hope it helps......

    On Satan being ruler of this world/system of things:

    You mentioned 1 John 5:19, so I want to look at it in context." If anyone catches sight of his brother sinning a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and he will give life to him, yes, to those not sinning so as to incur death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request. All unrighteousness is sin; and yet there is a sin that does not incur death. We know that every [person] that has been born from God does not practice sin, but the One born from God watches him, and the wicked one does not fasten his hold on him. We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting. Little children, guard yourselves from idols."

    The context of the scripture is talking about sin, so the scripture is saying that the whole world is in sin and in this limited way the whole world is in the power of Satan. The only way out of this is, per v.18, is to turn to Christ because he has power over Satan and sin.

    After taking 1 John into context and especially v. 18, which displays Christ power over Satan, I don't see how Satan’s power makes Christ authority over all the earth (Matt 28:18) relative in any way.

    Here are some more scriptures which shows that Christ power is over all. Ephesians 1:19-23, " It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, **far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come. He also subjected all things under his feet**, and made him head over all things to the congregation, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills up all things in all." Again Christ is above everything, there is no room for anyone else to rule or have authority over anything. Also, this echoes Matt 28:18.

    You brought up the context of Matt 28, so I want to look at it a little more. Starting in verse 16, " However, the eleven disciples went into Gal´i•lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

    The disciples that came to Jesus did obeisance toward him, but some doubted which must mean that some doubted if obeisance should be given to Jesus. The response by Jesus to this doubt is “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”. This is a fitting response because Jesus has to be in a position to receive obeisance, and this is what he was saying. In effect he was saying that it is ok for his disciples to do obeisance toward him at that very moment because he is king in heaven.

    Jesus Having all authority also gave the ability to preach the good news of the kingdom. After saying that he has all authority he says, go therefore. In other word, because I now have all authority you can go and preach. Before then the message of the Kingdom could not have been preached because Christ was not ruling as King. Earlier in Christ life he made comments like that found in Luke 17:21, the Kingdom is in your midst, but never commissioned a message of the good news of the kingdom until he was King.

    If I were to take your doctrine that Christ authority in Matt was ONLY relative to the congregation and the preaching work I would have to come up with some odd conclusions. Christ is set up as head of the church in the first century and, in your words, directs the preaching work but it is impossible to preach until Christ has taken the throne in 1914 (per the 1955 watchtower that I mentioned earlier). So, Christ directs something, but for about 1,900 years there is really noting to direct. Very confusing.


    Now, about Matt 24 and Rev 6. Yes, I totally agree that these are complementary chapters of the bible. However, I do not see how it is possible that the one seated on the white horse in Rev 6:2 is Jesus. Here is a good explanation that I found:

    The interpretation here identifies Jesus as the rider of the first horse, although such an identification is not made in the text itself. Rather, this identification is facilitated by conflating the rider on this white horse with the rider in Revelation 19:11-16. But there are good reasons for rejecting this interpretation.
    First of all, the figure in ch. 19 is presented in quite a different manner. The horseman in v. 2 was given a ste-pha'-nos, or a wreath of victory, which relates to the rider’s military success (not kingly rulership), whereas the rider in ch. 19 wears dia-de'-mata, the crowns that are associated with true royalty.
    Second, he is armed with a bow and not a sword. This is detail that is suggestive of the Parthian army, whose archers were renowned. The forces associated with the Beast in Revelation (cf. 9:1-19, 16:12-14; cf. 17:12-13) also appear to have been Parthians, and these were depicted as horsemen wearing gold ste-pha'-noi (9:7-9), and it was widely feared during the time when Revelation was written that the Parthians would invade from the East, led by Nero redidivus. The Beast is elsewhere shown as imitating Jesus Christ, but in an inferior way (cf. the “resurrection” of the Beast in 13:3, 17:8, and compare 17:8 with 1:4).
    Finally, it was Jesus Christ himself as the Lamb who was opening the seals and thus it is unlikely that the author construes the Lamb as a horseman summoned by his own breaking of the seal.


    Thanks again for your response. I am looking forward to your or any other Jehovah’s Witness response.

    In Christ,
    Aaron

  • darthfader
    darthfader

    Great points!
    Elsewhere, I love the FSM -- "May he touch me with his noodily appendages."
    Outlaw, "Metric System"... LOL!
    MS, Thanks for the review of those scriptures. Great perspecitve - sometimes it's best to fight fire with fire.
    Cheers

    Darth Fader

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    i would reply: And so are YOU.

  • dutchstef
    dutchstef

    If god is our father

    If all the people are his children....

    If the whole world is lying in the hands of the devil.

    What kind of father then are you, if you leave your children in the hands of the devil if you are able to help them?

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    I would try to get to why he feels only the JWs are not under Satan's control.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    I was rereading 1 John before I posted this. I would ask the witness how Satan controls this system of things? I would take them back 3 chapters to an earlier part of this discussion..chapter 2:

    14 I write YOU , fathers, because YOU have come to know him who is from [the] beginning. I write YOU , young men, because YOU are strong and the word of God remains in YOU and YOU have conquered the wicked one.

    15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

    So how does Satan control this sytem of things? Is it that he rules the world, running the entire political show? Verse 16 tells us how Satan influences and controls the world- the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life. Ch 5 verse 19 simply sums this up again.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Agonus:

    Try: "Indeed it is. That is why I put faith in Christ and His heavenly kingdom rather than an earthly organization." See how that flies.

    There is something about that statement that will make their heads spin. That's a good one, Agonus.

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    I usually say something to this effect "If the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one why is Christianity the most popular religion in the world? Do you think anyone could get voted into political office that was a Satan Worshipper?"

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