Dontcha Bet WTS is Pouring Over This TIME Article Against College?

OnTheWayOut

Sorry, I will post it in a minute:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1967580,00.html

The Case Against College Education

Even in these days of partisan rancor, there is a bipartisan consensus on the high value of postsecondary education. That more people should go to college is usually taken as a given. In his State of the Union address last month, President Obama echoed the words of countless high school guidance counselors around the country: "In this economy, a high school diploma no longer guarantees a good job." Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, who gave the Republican response, concurred: "All Americans agree that a young person needs a world-class education to compete in the global economy."

The statistics seem to bear him out. People with college degrees make a lot more than people without them, and that difference has been growing. But does that mean that we should help more kids go to college — or that we should make it easier for people who didn't go to college to make a living? (See the 10 best college presidents.)

We may be close to maxing out on the first strategy. Our high college drop-out rate — 40% of kids who enroll in college don't get a degree within six years — may be a sign that we're trying to push too many people who aren't suited for college to enroll. It has been estimated that, in 2007, most people in their 20s who had college degrees were not in jobs that required them: another sign that we are pushing kids into college who will not get much out of it but debt. (Comment on this story.)

The benefits of putting more people in college are also oversold. Part of the college wage premium is an illusion. People who go to college are, on average, smarter than people who don't. In an economy that increasingly rewards intelligence, you'd expect college grads to pull ahead of the pack even if their diplomas signified nothing but their smarts. College must make many students more productive workers. But at least some of the apparent value of a college degree, and maybe a lot of it, reflects the fact that employers can use it as a rough measure of job applicants' intelligence and willingness to work hard.

We could probably increase the number of high school seniors who are ready to go to college — and likely to make it to graduation — if we made the K-12 system more academically rigorous. But let's face it: college isn't for everyone, especially if it takes the form of four years of going to classes on a campus. (See pictures of the college dorm's evolution.)

To talk about college this way may sound élitist. It may even sound philistine, since the purpose of a liberal-arts education is to produce well-rounded citizens rather than productive workers. But perhaps it is more foolishly élitist to think that going to school until age 22 is necessary to being well-rounded, or to tell millions of kids that their future depends on performing a task that only a minority of them can actually accomplish.

The good news is that there have never been more alternatives to the traditional college. Some of these will no doubt be discussed by a panel of education experts on Feb. 26 at the National Press Club, a debate that will be aired on PBS. Online learning is more flexible and affordable than the brick-and-mortar model of higher education. Certification tests could be developed so that in many occupations employers could get more useful knowledge about a job applicant than whether he has a degree. Career and technical education could be expanded at a fraction of the cost of college subsidies. Occupational licensure rules could be relaxed to create opportunities for people without formal education.

It is absurd that people have to get college degrees to be considered for good jobs in hotel management or accounting — or journalism. It is inefficient, both because it wastes a lot of money and because it locks people who would have done good work out of some jobs. The tight connection between college degrees and economic success may be a nearly unquestioned part of our social order. Future generations may look back and shudder at the cruelty of it.

OnTheWayOut

leavingwt

You can expect juicy morsels of this to appear in public talks all over the country in record time.

"Young people, Armageddon is just around the corner. Devote your life to selling WT magazines!"

besty

taken as a whole I tend to agree with the sentiments of the article - the education system is designed to create worker bees for Big Corp,18th Floor, Sector G7.

the best interests of society at large and the child are not top of the agenda

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

OnTheWayOut

Here are some quotes from it that will not reach their ears from the platform:

"In this economy, a high school diploma no longer guarantees a good job." Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, who gave the Republican response, concurred: "All Americans agree that a young person needs a world-class education to compete in the global economy."

People with college degrees make a lot more than people without them, and that difference has been growing.

People who go to college are, on average, smarter than people who don't.

...the purpose of a liberal-arts education is to produce well-rounded citizens rather than productive workers.

Online learning is more flexible and affordable than the brick-and-mortar model of higher education.

Here are some quotes that will almost definitely be used by WTS:

40% of kids who enroll in college don't get a degree within six years

It has been estimated that, in 2007, most people in their 20s who had college degrees were not in jobs that required them: another sign that we are pushing kids into college who will not get much out of it but debt.

But let's face it: college isn't for everyone, especially if it takes the form of four years of going to classes on a campus.
(Expect a WTS comment to follow that one saying how dangerous the campus life is for spiritual people.)

...perhaps it is more foolishly élitist to think that going to school until age 22 is necessary to being well-rounded, or to tell millions of kids that their future depends on performing a task that only a minority of them can actually accomplish.

It is absurd that people have to get college degrees to be considered for good jobs in hotel management or accounting — or journalism. It is inefficient, both because it wastes a lot of money and because it locks people who would have done good work out of some jobs.

Elsewhere

FTA: Part of the college wage premium is an illusion. People who go to college are, on average, smarter than people who don't.

This is a statement that I can only partially agree with. The reason I say this is because intelligence can be taught. It is possible to train a person to think more intelligently by challenging him/her with a problem, then when the problem is solved, present a slightly more difficult problem.

I know this is true because it is literally possible to train a person to perform better on IQ tests. (I've done it myself and scored 15 points higher than before my training)

Yes, everyone does have a certain "intelligence ceiling" (you can't make everyone into an Einstein) , but we should not toss a person out of an education program BEFORE he/she reaches that ceiling.

OnTheWayOut

College really isn't for everyone. I agree. Many successful people are tradesmen or work their way up in a system. But as the article points out, many hire the college grad just because they assume they applied their intelligence or worked harder to accomplish something. I am not a college grad, just have a G.E.D. but if I had a son/daughter that could go to college, I would encourage it rather than let WTS or anyone discourage it.

Elsewhere

> College really isn't for everyone.

Very true! Some people do not thrive in that environment. Bill Gates is a college drop out. He dropped out because he knew he could accomplish more, faster, than if he had stayed in college.

Everyone must be free to choose.

OnTheWayOut

People who go to college are, on average, smarter than people who don't.

Two thoughts.

1. Tested intelligence is only one way to consider how smart a person is. Also smarts is not everything. Qualities such as creativity, nurturing, hand-to-eye coordination, etc. etc. are also desireable and many people who are not geniuses are great workers or productive citizens in some way.

2. Intelligence can be improved by using the brain. College uses the brain.

Personally, I think that a high school education needs to be improved. I read somewhere that, to save money, some areas were considering getting kids through high school in 3 years versus 4 years. The same article said that many adults in college have to take remedial courses before taking weighted courses. That's fine for older adults, but really the kids with a high school diploma should be reading at a 12th grade or at least 9th grade level already. They should have a basic understanding of science and algebra and the stuff that is supposedly covered in high school. The smart ones can get college credit for heavier-weighted high school courses (for free) before getting out of high school. They really need to keep them for 4 years and make something of those kids before they enter the work force or go on to college.

Dontcha Bet WTS is Pouring Over This TIME Article Against College?

The Case Against College Education

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