To Jayhawk - Proclaimers Book Quotes

by YoYoMama 32 Replies latest jw friends

Will Power

Its a fact, the more changes, the more printing.
The more printing the more bragging for the big print shop in the sky.
There is alot more money in hardcover
LDH

It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
6 In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises
Yeah so UMMMMMM let me get this right. You publish the books that we use for our 'Bible Study,' and then when we beleive what they say, it's our f@*#&ng fault?!?!?
It must be the new math, YYMM.
Lisa
YoYoMama

Outlaw: Actually I'm not called a liar on a daily basis. This is just a lame way for you to insult me. Only a few have insulted, but what else should I expect here. In reality, I've had pretty good conversations with many on this board.
YoYoMama

LDH:
you missed the following sentence to the statement you refer to:
In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.
That includes the brothers in the Writing Department. So they are not blaming the sheep, but the brothers in Bethel.
Understand, mamasita?
Will Power

If I had spent all that time & effort in the writing dept writing & departmenting I'd have been disappointed too and embarrassed and I wouldn't want to read that deut. thing ever!
Had Enough

Yo YoMama:
You have jumped on some statements here but have ignored some very valid points and questions, such as:
-Uncle Bruce provided many dogmatic quotation about 1975 alone that subtly put the pressure on all and caused many to alter their lives to show their faith and love for god in those last days. Why did we believe it?... because the GB time and time again hammered into us that their words to us were directed from god.
So how do you justify their "explanation" in the 1976 WT where they said:
“If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.
(contributed" should actually read "caused" IMHO.)
-LPH said: Right now JWs are dying because they don't understand the WTS's blood policy. Other died for things that are now OK. Children are being abused by elders and the WTS protects the elders. This generation is trashed. People have felony records or are in jail because of a policy on alternative service that was overturned
How do you explain that? and....
-Will Power asked:"Are there people who have already died believing & teaching others these "mistakes" who have not recieved so much as an "oooops".
How is this the "acceptable will" of god. Howcome god allows his "mouthpiece" to make such significant "mistakes" causing peoples lives. What possible purpose does it serve? Is it proof of his love?
-OUTLAWsaid: "after lying for decades to people ,they tell them it was their own fault for comming to those conclusions!"
Yes, just last week an elder explained from the platform how the 1975 hype was "all the fault of the r&f" and the GB had to step in and "straighten" the whole mess out. <------LIES
If you are going to defend the WTS, then these are questions that cannot be ignored.
Had Enough
"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead
Had Enough

Yo YoMama:
While I was typing my post you said to LDH:
LDH:
you missed the following sentence to the statement you refer to:
In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.
That includes the brothers in the Writing Department. So they are not blaming the sheep, but the brothers in Bethel.
How can the WTS have it both ways? How can they influence us to believe they are being directed by god in what to teach us so that to believe what the WTS says is to believe and obey god...and then.... come back and say ooops the "Writing Department" was wrong.
We all know for a fact that if you don't believe something written in the publications, you are either corrected, or marked or even df'd. They cannot have it both ways but they do inforce it.
Had Enough
"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead
AlanF

I'm glad to see that you posted the quotations from the Proclaimers book, YoYo. They prove what I've told you, that in this book the Society minimized the signficance of its false teachings. It also contains a lot of outright misrepresentations. Here is a good example:
*** jv 134-5 10 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
End of the Gentile Times
...
Similarly, they also first thought that global troubles culminating in anarchy (which they understood would be associated with the war of "the great day of God the Almighty") would precede that date. (Rev. 16:14) But then, ten years before 1914, the Watch Tower suggested that worldwide turmoil that would result in the annihilating of human institutions would come right after the end of the Gentile Times.
These statements are true, but they leave out the reason for changing the expectations in 1904 concerning the worldwide anarchy that was to start in 1914. The Society had long taught that the anarchy would begin not later than about 1904, so when that year came along and nothing had happened, they had no choice but to change their expectations for what was to happen in 1904 and beyond. Thus, it was the total failure of their predictions that led to changing a few of their teachings about the future.
This sort of changing of expectations based upon the abject failure of all of their predictions up to that point has been a feature of the Watchtower mindset from the beginning. For example, even after 1904 Russell taught that the Bible Students would be taken to heaven well before 1914, so that by about 1910 he was forced again to change his teachings. This is implicit in the following quotation, continued from above:
They expected the year 1914 to mark a significant turning point for Jerusalem, since the prophecy had said that `Jerusalem would be trodden down' until the Gentile Times were fulfilled. When they saw 1914 drawing close and yet they had not died as humans and been `caught up in the clouds' to meet the Lord-in harmony with earlier expectations-they earnestly hoped that their change might take place at the end of the Gentile Times.-1 Thess. 4:17.
This quotation shows how skillful the Society's writers are at phrasing things so mildly that the typical JW reader is misled about how strongly the Society had "suggested" various things to come.
The next couple of quotations, again continued from above, are the best examples of misleading by telling the truth that I've found in the Proclaimers book:
As the years passed and they examined and reexamined the Scriptures, their faith in the prophecies remained strong, and they did not hold back from stating what they expected to occur.
In other words, even though everything they had predicted failed, and they had to re-engineer their ideas about what "the Gentile times" meant so completely that a pre-1900 Bible Student would have been unable to recognize them, they kept on making predictions, every one of which proved false.
Having set up the reader with a bit of misdirection, the writer executes the coup de grace with an absolutely priceless example of grand misdirection:
With varying degrees of success, they endeavored to avoid being dogmatic about details not directly stated in the Scriptures.
This statement is a perfect example of "lying by telling the truth". The phrase "with varying degrees of success" can mean anything from complete success to total failure, so the phrase is true in the sense that the Society often was absolutely dogmatic in its predictions. One example was when a Watchtower article claimed that the 1925 date was even more certain than the inspired prediction by God to Noah of a coming Flood. With such grand misdirection, the reader is given the impression that most of the time, the Society's predictions were not dogmatic at all, and occasionally they were just a little bit dogmatic.
Again, YoYo, do keep posting. You're a great shill!
AlanF
Room 215

Yo Yo,
Even granted that a skilled witness can mount an effective scriptural defence of the basic JW doctrines (soul sleep, hellfire, trinity, earthly destiny, etc.), do you think it honors God when the Society signs His name to a bum check as they did in the period leading up to 1975, or in the masthead of Awake! magazine until November 1995?
When it comes to chronological/prophetic speculation, their record is perfect --- they've never -- repeat NEVER -- been right! Why is this so hard to understand?
Had Enough

Alan:
I'm glad you provided these examples of how we can feel perfectly justified in calling the WTS "liars".
As you said they are "lying by telling the truth" in your explanation of their statement of the "varying degrees of success" and they lie by omitting facts which gives entirely the wrong impression as in the example of how "they leave out their reason for changing the expectations in 1904 concerning the worldwide anarchy that was to start in 1914."
How many of the average JWs will have access to the older publications to find that out for themselves or if they do have access, will even think to check out the statements made in the Proclaimers book? Why would the average publisher even question the statements in that book? We all "know" that the WTS speaks "only the truth", right? They are directed by god to say his words, but they are only human and make mistakes, right? So WHY doesn't god correct their "human errors" before lives are ruined, wasted or lost?
My sarcasm comes from my anger at myself for allowing the wool to pulled over my eyes for so long...for being such a typical JW that sat being spoonfed all this pablum, never questioning, never thinking for one minute that the WTS would mislead us. And too my anger comes from still seeing the typical JW swallow this drivel and be so self-assured that their precious WTS would never steer them wrong, and plunge headlong into gearing their lives around the "soon-to-be-here end".
Had Enough
"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

To Jayhawk - Proclaimers Book Quotes

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