Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon 274 Replies latest social current

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  Marvin Shilmer

  ...I HAVE answered you.

  No. You haven't. You've concocted an excuse to avoid answering the question asked.

  - Either you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing, or you do not. You never say.

  - Either you hold a position that courts should assert punitive measures to cause the sort of discrimination demonstrated in a Miss White USA pageant to cease, or you do not. You never say.

  So, what is your position on a Miss White USA pageant? Is this a fine thing or should courts assert punitive measures to cause such discrimination based on race to cease?
  
• 

  never a jw

  My solution to the problem is to have (I hope my Spanish to English translation is right) civil marriages conducted by the state. They should be the only legal and valid marriages before the law. If someone wants to have a symbolic religious marriage before his/her God go to whatever church wants to take you and don't try to impose your personal interpretation of morality and religion on a religious group that doesn't agree with your morality.

  By the way, I side with Nietzsche regarding Christianity. I don't like it at all. And yes I support vehemently gay rights to marry as much as I support religions to keep their backwards antigay morality. It's a matter of the most fundamental right: FREEDOM, even to be an idiot.
• 

  Viviane

  Either you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing, or you do not. You never say.
  - Either you hold a position that courts should assert punitive measures to cause the sort of discrimination demonstrated in a Miss White USA pageant to cease, or you do not. You never say.
  So, what is your position on a Miss White USA pageant? Is this a fine thing or should courts assert punitive measures to cause such discrimination based on race to cease?

  As I said, rephrase it so it makes sense and I am happy to answer. The offer for help is on the table. No one is stopping you from accepting but you.

  BTW, some minor points ... if you don't need to keep repeating the question, why did you? Also, why are you presenting a (poorly worded) false dichotomy? Why are you trying to limit any possible response (once you reframe the question so it makes sense) to just the options you are presenting?
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  Viviane

  And yes I support vehemently gay rights to marry as much as I support religions to keep their backwards antigay morality.

  Would you say the same thing if they were discriminating against people because they were African American?
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  Marvin Shilmer

  By the way, inserting the word commerce makes the argument too specious. That alone sounds like big brother's poorly supported excuse to tear down the fundamental right of freedom of religion.

  I'm not sure I completely follow what you're trying to say but, as I said earlier, when a person or corporation purchases a state or local business license that individual or corporation is obligated to conduct that business as laws of that state require. The license is there to purchase. But the issuing authority is what governs and otherwise assigns conditions to the lawful use and keeping of that license. Hence my use of "commerce". I've also used this term because insofar as I can tell the discussion is about what licensed businesses can do.
  
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  Marvin Shilmer

  As I said, rephrase it so it makes sense and I am happy to answer. The offer for help is on the table. No one is stopping you from accepting but you.

  I'm happy with the question the way it is, and it is answerable as it is. You apparently just do not want to answer it for what it asks. And, no I really don't need you to re-frame the question I want you answer. I've asked the question I want to ask. I've not asked the question you want me to ask.

  BTW, some minor points ... if you don't need to keep repeating the question, why did you? Also, why are you presenting a (poorly worded) false dichotomy? Why are you trying to limit any possible response (once you reframe the question so it makes sense) to just the options you are presenting?

  I restated the question for sake of any readers who might want to know what I was speaking of without wandering through the thread of responses.

  If you think my question presents a false dichotomy then say so and prove your assertion. I'm happy to engage that.

  I'm also not trying to limit any possible response. How you choose to answer the question asked is up to you, up to and including a non-answer, which is what you've done until now. But, honestly, I see no possibility of a false dichotomy in the question of whether you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing. Either you do or you don't. I don't really care which position you hold. I'm just wondering which position you hold and, hopefully, once you say, why you hold that position.
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  Viviane

  I'm happy with the question the way it is, and it is answerable as it is. You apparently just do not want to answer it for what it asks. And, no I really don't need you to re-frame the question I want you answer. I've asked the question I want to ask. I've not asked the question you want me to ask.

  Oh well. You're free to mistakenly think your question makes sense, that I am avoiding it for whatever reason and to display a complete lack of curiosity on why the question is deficient.

  Wrong on all counts, of course, but horse, water, etc.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  You're free to mistakenly think your question makes sense, that I am avoiding it for whatever reason and to display a complete lack of curiosity on why the question is deficient.

  Viviane,

  You keep asserting things like the question is stupid and it's poorly worded and it presents a false dichotomy and that it makes no sense. These are your assertions; not mine.

  Your assertions are yours to prove true, not mine to be curious about or mine to disprove. If you want to demonstrate why the question I've asked is unanswerable then do so and be done with it. But in the face of a question all you do is keep making assertions as though that matters. Until you prove your assertions true all they are is personal opinion. I'm glad you have them. I'm glad you feel free to share them. So what? I don't care what you hold as personal opinions. I care what you can prove.

  Right now what I see is an answerable question and, in you, someone for reasons unknown just does not want to answer that answerable question.
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  Viviane

  For comparison, here is a question with very similar construction qualities

  
  
• 

  Viviane

  You keep asserting things like the question is stupid and it's poorly worded and it presents a false dichotomy and that it makes no sense. These are your assertions; not mine.

  Well done. You've managed to tell me that what I said is what I said and not what you said.

  Your assertions are yours to prove true, not mine to be curious about or mine to disprove. If you want to demonstrate why the question I've asked is unanswerable then do so and be done with it

  Is this your way of asking for help? I've no particular interest showing why it's poorly constructed unless you are asking why. You're the one that wants the answer.

  Until you prove your assertions true all they are is personal opinion.

  Creationist refuse to believe in evolution, that doesn't make it less true.

  So what? I don't care what you hold as personal opinions. I care what you can prove.

  Are you asking? It seems like you're asking.

  Right now what I see is an answerable question and, in you, someone for reasons unknown just does not want to answer that answerable question.

  People see things that aren't there all the times.

  Also, point of clarity, I said it doesn't make sense AND that I would have to make assumptions about what you mean to actually ask, not that it is not answerable. "Purple monkey dishwasher" could be an answer.