Blood Or Shunning - Which Bugs You More?

by Englishman 19 Replies latest jw friends

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  Englishman

  I must confess that I never had a problem with the blood issue, but that was only because I never experienced a blood issue. If I had of done, I'm sure that I would be raging with anger.

  My main quarrel with the WT is over shunning. Let's not fall for this crap about it being love in disguise either! The reason that the WTBTS promulgate shunning is to gag you. They want you quiet! That is why this board literally teems with disfellowshipped people. DF'd people are walking pressure cookers, they have to release years and years of enforced silence, they have to vent their emotions. Disfellowshipped people are the ticking time-bombs that will eventually explode everything into the face of the WTBTS.

  Justice ain't enough for disfellowshipped people. We want vengeance!

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
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  teenyuck

  Englishman-

  I agree with you. We are pressure cookers. I have needed to vent and this forum has given me the opportunity to do that after many years of stewing.

  I think this is a very good issue to think about. I never had the blood issue come up either. I did have a conversation with my mother after TV show "The Practice" showed the JW lawyer in a coma and needing a transfusion. I told my mother my husband had control and if he felt it would save my life, he should go for it. She is very upset that I set aside the teachings. Yada Yada.

  I am glad I have people like you to communicate with.

  "I used to be Snow White, then I drifted." Mae West
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  Sam Beli

  Hello Englishman,

  I have to agree with Lee Elder that the two are difficult to compare. During my JW days DFing was never close to me until I was involved with action against a very smart “rebellious” guy. He finally was DF’ed and I always felt badly about it. One day, in public, I took an opportunity to greet him and shake hands with him. That encounter probably did me more good than him.

  While the DFing issue plays games with people’s minds and is a hideous practice, the blood issue plays with peoples very lives. Recovery from mind games is possible, but so far, resurrection is beyond the power of even the guys who make the blood rules for JWs.

  JWs and even ex-JWs, in my experience, have an aversion to blood transplantation that is not shared by the general public. JWs tend to think of blood in terms of eating it. This is not surprising since eating blood was the form of intake that framed the GB’s original objection to blood. But, I ask you, how many of us would find eating a human heart, kidney, liver, etc. appetizing? Probably none of us!

  Non physicians tend to think of a transfusion in different terms than an organ transplant; however, a transfusion is exactly what it is – an organ transplant. If one wants to object to solid organ transplantation along with liquid transplantation, fine. Then one is being consistent. Remember, blood transplantation is the only organ transplant that often takes place in full view of the public. JWs see blood transplantation taking place and say “yuck.”

  Believe me, if the public (and those same JWs) could see other medical procedures and operations, their “yuck” would be much louder.

  Dungbeetle refers to unnecessary transfusions, and I would agree that there have been such, but the medical profession is working hard to trim these and all unnecessary procedures. What I am talking about above are the large number of life saving transfusions that are administered every day around the world. I for one would rather live for many years with hep “C” than die promptly from trauma. Aids is rarely passed via transfusion today. Hep “C” patients usually live 20 or more years after infection; many never become ill with the disease. Ask COMF.

  For over 50 years the WTS has over-hyped the threat of disease form blood and those fears often follow JWs after they have left the organization. Their over-hyping is the result of their very weak scriptural arguments against the medical use of blood.

  Sam Beli

  I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon
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  Cygnus

  Brother dungbeetle,

  Are you saying that in a severe trauma circumstance, given a 1/300,000 chance of obtaining HIV, and a 1/15,000 chance of obtaining Hep C (allowing that three units of pRBC are required), you would appeal to those numbers to reject the transfusion if the trained medical people informed you of a 1/10 or 1/50 or even 1/1000 chance of dying from acute anemia?
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  nytelecom1

  that still doesnt answer my question.
  please reply
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  Englishman

  It seems to me that the 2 issues are definitely related. If you were to ask an ex how he felt about DF'ing, he would probably say that, in his opinion, DF'ing is unscriptural, barbaric and and causes people pain pointlessly.

  Hmm! 3 'P's' there, causes 'people pain pointlessly'.

  That being said, let's now assume an answer from an ex that describes the refusal of a life-giving blood transfusion. Do the same 3 'P's', causing 'people pain pointlessly' come into play here?

  I should say so!

  Although many JW's who leave the faith are disappointed at the many failed prophecies, I suggest that many would be able to handle this relatively easily. It is only when the prophecies fail to materialise AND witnesses who have been told to deny their families via shunning start to put 2 and 2 together that trouble starts. It is not natural to shun people. Shunning soon makes the shunners resentful of the hierarchy which insists that they must continue to shun. Shunners do not want to do it, it annoys their deepest instincts, so much so that some shunners come out in denial and over-compensate and shun to ridiculous extremes in the vain hope that somehow Jehovah will reward their loyalty and bring the shunned family members back into the faith. It rarely happens, as Joelbear will find out during his temporary foray back into dubbism will doubtless prove.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
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  Joyzabel

  Englishman,

  I had to think about this one for awhile and I decided the blood issue is worse, imho, because once a life is lost, there is no getting that life back. Shunning, on the other hand, is very emotionally painful, but they are still living. j2bf
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  Englishman

  Joy2bfree,

  I am sure that those who have lost loved one's due to lack of blood are in greater pain than those who have lost family due to shunning, ater all, shunning can be stopped once the shunner recognises his error.

  My point is that shunning affects many more people than blood deprivation does. Consequently it would seem that most ex's are angrier about shunning than they are over the blood issue.

  Englishman.

  Bring on the dancing girls!
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  dungbeetle

  I really wish that if someone makes a post directed at certain individuals, that they would, in the beginning, just SAY so....

  Sister Cygnus...I don't measure my worth as a human being or the value and quality of my life as fractions of a number. Just as I don't measure other human beings by the number of hours of field service or meeting attendance, or the degree of agreement they express with Watchtower doctrine. Not anymore, anyway I HOPE....

  I don't need to 'ask' COMF about Hepatitis C...I can go to this site just as one example:

  http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/fact.htm

  there are many more like this. Besides which, my husband has been diagnosed with it. Every morning before my feet hit the floor, I look over to the other side of the bed and I am reminded of this dreaded 'new' plague spreading like wildfire through the American population, (twice as many have it as AIDS) and the tremendous social and financial burden it already presents to the American public that will only get greater if we can't do SOMETHING about it. Write your Congresspersons, folks!!!!!

  What I get from Englishman's thread and the postings here is the issue of CHOICE...as a JW I have no CHOICE about refusing blood...I HAVE to do it or my life is ****.

  I AM a trained medical person, thank you very much.

  True blue JW supporters like You Know and his type get disturbed by people like me because we prove the Watchtower wrong---there are many people who make personal CHOICES about things that are similar to JW's, without all the biblical mumbo jumbo they spout. Come on, how many times have we heard it.."Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who...(pick one)." <gag> <choke>

  btw, Sister Cygnus,how could people live for up to twenty years with Hepatitis C when the virus was not identified until 1989 and the test for it wasn't licensed until 1990?

  I hope you are right, tho.

  Englishman, I hope you get some responses from your INTENDED audience.

  Good topic, I think.

  In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"
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  Sam Beli

  Hello Dungbeetle (Love your name btw)

  I assume that some of your remarks were directed to me. I am sorry about your husband’s illness. I hope that it is not too far advanced.

  You said: “btw, Sister Cygnus, how could people live for up to twenty years with Hepatitis C when the virus was not identified until 1989 and the test for it wasn't licensed until 1990?”

  It was me, not “brother” Cygnus, that referred to living 20 or more years with hep. “C.” Your dates are correct. Prior to about 1990 most hep C was called “non A non B hepatitis.” Thousands of careful histories have documented when victims of hep C were likely infected. Persons now showing symptoms were infected anywhere from the 50s and 60s to the 80s and early 90s. Many factors influence if and when a person with the virus may become ill. Many who lead good clean lives never show symptoms. Conversely, heavy drinkers hasten the onset of the disease. Avoiding heavy doses of Tylenol and alcohol are good practices for all of us and especially for those carrying the hep C virus.

  This site adds a little more to the CDC site: http://www.battlinghepc.com/

  This page may give you more hope for your husband: http://www.hepcprimer.com/stats/future1.html

  If your husband’s case is advanced and/or you wish to discuss my personal experience, please feel free to e-mail me.

  Sam Beli

  I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon