by Think About It 63 Replies latest jw friends
Old Hippie:
Wake up, dearie. Sexual abuse of woman and girls is rampant and the elders are not equipped to deal with it and in fact are shoving it under the rug most of the time.
Do a little research on its effects and then come back here and post an apology to all the abused women on here that you just insulted.
Fondly,
palmtree
Life Is Too Short, when you said...: "For those of you that think this does not happen I am so glad you like [living] in your little bubble. I know my husband tries to live in a bubble, [but] I have broken it for him over and over. Maybe I am wrong to shatter his world like I do, but how can you live in a bubble and still not look out...?"
GOOOOD point! Besides, what if he continues to live in his "bubble" until some nut JW with a gun or other weapon "shatters" his bubble!!???
Zid
Hmmmm...... Old Hippie quoted, and then wrote...:
"I joined a support group for victims of abuse and I went to my meeting last night. Everyone told me that the elders are trying to make me go crazy on purpose. I really believe it."
Your believing that, tells me all there is to know about your credibility."
I suspect that, what Old Hippie was questioning was the statement, "the elders are trying to make me go crazy on purpose. I really believe it."
As to whether the elders would deliberately try to drive someone crazy, under NORMAL circumstances I would assume that the elders had no nefarious scheme - well, no WELL-ORGANIZED nefarious scheme; the elders were just striving mightily to discredit the person who was revealing such horrific realities about the group - the elders didn't want ANYONE to "burst their cozy little bubble"...
BUUUUuuuT... Since we're talking about the nutso cult here... I could see some religious JW zealots, full of themselves and the need to "Defend the Great Name of Jehovah!", willing to push a trouble-maker - and a female [less status in the congregation...] trouble-maker at that - over the edge...
Zid
The elders are just people. A cross-section of society. They are as capable of any act as any other member of society. Saying they wouldn't do such a thing is like saying catholic priest wouldn't molest a child be because of his office.
Bingo.....
The thing is people always remember the bad more than the good many times in life.
Is there one person that had a positive experience with the elders?
Three of them gathered together after I had admitted smoking, and I found it to be uplifting, and probably the high point of my short JW career. Rather than being the over-bearing, uncaring, Gotcha!, quick to throw you away persons presented by many ex-JW's I found them helpfull, and willing to help.
I am sure there are instances of elders screwing up royally, but they are JUST people.
For the most part, most are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
Snapshots are never a good way to judge a person or a group. One has to see the whole movie.
The thing is people always remember the bad more than the good many times in life.
Snapshots are never a good way to judge a person or a group. One has to see the whole movie.
While this is true in general, it doesn't fit these circumstances. This is a controlling organization that claims to represent "The Only True God" on earth today. Even snapshots of abuse and corruption are relevant to debunking that false claim.
(Thx, Mad Sweeney!) "This is a controlling organization that claims to represent "The Only True God" on earth today...."
AAAAAaand they also claim to be "God's loving people"... To the exclusion of ALL other people on the planet...
That makes them doubly reprehensible, in my opinion... But, as Krettnawe pointed out, the INDIVIDUAL elders are just people...
My issue is primarily with the ORGANIZATION that pushes them into actions that they WOULDN'T undertake under NORMAL circumstances...
Zid
(and yes; I, too, had positive experiences with the elders in my old congregation[s]... Problem was the organization and its mind-control tactics...)
I was the victim of a FUBAR judicial committee. I have told parts of this story here in the past. As a MS in 1991, I was accused of lying by two married regular pioneers sisters, who were apparently jealous of my friendship (not romantic) with a single pioneer sister in our KH.
I was accused of lying about my field service time (one of them had been nosing around in my personal calendar that I had left on the front seat of my car -- apparently they did not think it possible that I had put in 120 hours one month because they hadn't seen me out that much.),
I was also accused of lying about having a crush on a single pioneer sister in our congo (who was very close friends with the secretary of the congo...a little too close for the tastes of many as he was/is married). Most of the regular pioneers, with the exception of two elderly pioneers who would have backed me, were invited into a supposed "investigation only" meeting. Little did they or I know that it was really a judicial committee. It was not a committee of 3 elders. It was the entire BOE of I think 6 or 8 at the time.
The elder who was chairing it (the secretary), went down the line one by one and asked each pioneer sister "do you think Brother Bailey lies, yes or no?" If any answer other than "yes" or "no" came out, they were interrupted and asked "yes or no." The consensus was all yes. (Years later, the single sister told me she was pressured by the elders to say yes though she didnt believe it....shortly after that meeting, she moved away. I hear she is still single, still a pioneer. Poor girl. 50 with no future.)
I was also accused about, of all things, claiming to have lied about coming up with the idea to have my cinnamon roll heated with butter at the local donut shop and telling everyone that it was my idea. WTF? How petty. It was the donut shop owner who suggested it. I just passed the idea along. But that was how petty things got, the BOE wanted the troublemaker MS gone and they were developing a portfolio of lies for me.
After we were all dismissed, they told me to stay while they went downstairs to talk. They then, after awhile, came back and told me I was being judicially reproved privately, being removed as MS and pioneer, and "restricted" from public prayer for a single month. Just enough to keep me off the pioneer list for a year and MS for 3.
So that's my personal FUBAR JC story... and here is a big fat middle finger to KS, the chair of that committee...now an elder in another nearby KH.
palmtree:
I know of an elder who kept files on his computer of everyone in the congregation. A young brother moved in with them temporarily, was using the computer and found them.
Not on a computer to my knowledge, but the former secretary of the Carlyle, Illinois congregation had a manila file folder in the elder's cabinet on every single publisher in the congregation... including me. Kind of a CIA kind of thing he had going on.... mundane and extremely personal notes with lots of his opinions on the perceived spirituality of each person. Completely unauthorized even by WT cult standards.
Only he and the PO (the only 2 elders before my arrival from MTS) had keys. When I requested a key, I was told only they could have it. I went to the CO... CO made them give me a key. I found the files and I cleaned house. When I was done, there were 3 large black Hefty trash bags (the kind you find on construction sites) full of files that had to be burned. Oh did I start a fire fight with those actions! I made sure that select gossipers in the congo were made aware of the existence of the files so that they would be careful. That guy was hated by all in the congregation. Though his wife claimed the opposite and said she was the "Mother" of the congo. AFter the arrival of us three MTS grads, two of us who were elders, the MS appointed not long after I left, the secretary left not long after me.
That congo had so many "investigations" going on into people's personal lives. It was why myself and 2 other MTS grads were sent in. I left after 4 months. I couldn't take the paranoia and the 150 mile round trip from my house to the territory several times a week. Don't know if the congo still exists or not, or if it does if the other two MTS guys from my class are still there.
Even around Bethel, the congos are fouled up. I was at WT Farm as a temp and heard more abusive language in the locker room before lunch than in some biker bars. I know of congos in the Bronx, Harlem, and Brooklyn that have very screwed up elder bodies. Be interesting to see how many of those congos will continue to exist once WT exits the city.
So all of these stories are very believable. I have stories of JC's I "served" on. Served is a poor word choice. As chairman on a couple of them, I had to shut down lines of questioning that were very unnecessary and very intrusive, especially about sexual misconduct. The elders involved in those JCs hated when I was chair. It didnt happen often that I was, but our cases were better handled because I tried to give as much dignity to a very undignified arrangement as I could. It was those JCs that told me something was very f**ked up about the whole arrangement.
Snakes (Rich )
(Snakes...) " was accused of lying about my field service time (one of them had been nosing around in my personal calendar that I had left on the front seat of my car.... I was also accused about, of all things, claiming to have lied about coming up with the idea to have my cinnamon roll heated with butter at the local donut shop and telling everyone that it was my idea. WTF? How petty. It was the donut shop owner who suggested it..... I found the files and I cleaned house. When I was done, there were 3 large black Hefty trash bags (the kind you find on construction sites) full of files that had to be burned. Oh did I start a fire fight with those actions! I made sure that select gossipers in the congo were made aware of the existence of the files so that they would be careful..... "
Good - frikkin' - ... Wait. I'm repeating myself. My jaw has hit the floor. Sure glad I never was around any of THOSE elders!!
And also from SnakesInTheTower: "Even around Bethel, the congos are fouled up. I was at WT Farm as a temp and heard more abusive language in the locker room before lunch than in some biker bars. I know of congos in the Bronx, Harlem, and Brooklyn that have very screwed up elder bodies. Be interesting to see how many of those congos will continue to exist once WT exits the city....." [Bolds and hilite mine - Zid]
Funny, I would have suspected that the congregations around Bethel would have been the absolute WORST ones - too close to dysfunctional "mother"...
Zid
Quandry,
What you posted brought me right back to the questioning of my child, just a few years ago. I couldn't believe how many times they asked her what she was wearing at the time of her molestation along with many other inappropriate questions.
It's disgusting how they treat victims, it truly is.
In my over 4 decades of being in the Jehovah's Witness cult - I would estimate about 75 % of judicial committee meetings I was involved with in one way or another or were aware of were all FUBAR decisions. Incredible.
THE OLD HIPPIE- Obviously by your doubting LIFE IS TOO SHORT 's claims you are unaware of the INTENTIONAL cult mind control tactics elders are trained to employ in handling judicial matters by the WT society or in just dealing with publishers in the congregation regarding ANY disagreeing attitude. A JW is ALWAYS " guilty until proven innocent " when brought up on trial at these JC meetings or in elders doubts towards their alleged "brothers & sisters " . My wife and I know LIFE IS TOO SHORT personally , are aware of what she is experiencing IN DETAIL - and she is an honest, upstanding person of moral character who stands up for justice against the elders wishes. You not believing her in a dismissive way tells me all I need to know about your LACK of compassion towards child abuse victims and that you gullibly trust most elders have JW members best interests at heart. They don't. They have the WT society's best interests at heart , not JW people personally. These elders in her congregation are dismissive towards her because they are hiding pedophiles and who knows WHAT ELSE ? Grow a heart dude
