How would you answer? (page 2)

flipper

IS THIS IT- Welcome to the board friend ! Good responses so far, I have nothing to add except welcome ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

yknot

Have you considered checking out ARJWB....

http://www.ajwrb.org/

Also consider that transfusions from child to mother happen in pregnancy........

Actually anytime a person has an IV started they get a 'transfusion' by WTS standards...

jwfacts

I wonder sometimes why I am even justifying my arguments using scripture or if these things matter anymore as not sure I even believe the bible is inspired anymore.

I was going to mention that point in my answer above. When I first left I started to come to the conclusion that the Watchtower doctrine was wrong when compared to the Bible, and other religions make more sense in a lot of areas. But over time I came to realise that the Bible is not inspired either. Your relative possibly wants to know an answer with Scriptural backing. However, in reality the whole argument is not meant to make sense. The Old Testament was written during a period of superstition and hence promoted slavery, stoning and sacrifices and the fear of blood because the life force was in the blood. The New Testament was written in a more enlightened period, which is why the Early Christian writers did away with many of these archaic laws. The early Christians themselves were fragmented, with different groups and different ideas. As shown in Acts, there was arguments between the Jewish Christians wanting to follow the OT and the Greek Christians with a different set of rules. There has never been a period when all people believed the same, and due to the inconsistencies in the Bible there are now 34,000 different Christian religions around the world.

GLTirebiter

First, let me say welcome!

Your post addresses one of the first and biggest problems I encountered with Watchtower doctrines.

Look in Leviticus for the origins and nature of the biblical blood prohibitions. The ritual for sacrifice of the burnt offering is the first of many references to the sacrificial blood in that book:

He will then slaughter the bull before YHWH, and the priests descended from Aaron will offer the blood. They will pour it all around the altar which stands at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. [Lev 1:5]

After descriptions of the various sacrifical rituals comes another prohibiton on blood:

Wherever you live, you will never eat blood, whether it be of bird or of beast. Anyone who eats any blood will be outlawed from his people. [Lev 8:26, 27]

What blood does Leviticus refer to in chapters 1-7, human or animal? (Animal.)
Is Leviticus discussing medical treatments or sacrificial rituals? (Sacrificial rituals.)
Were animal sacrifices still practiced during the first century? (Yes, until the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.)
Were blood transfusions used for medical purposes during the first century? (No.)
Do Jehovah's Witness offer burnt animal sacrifices at the Kingdom Hall? (No.)
Why does the Governing Body tell Jehovah's Witnesses to refuse medically appropriate blood transfusions? (To prove loyalty to the Watchtower organization.)

Krettnawe

Read Matthew Chapter 12 and ask you friend why Jesus healed people on the Sabath, why David was not stoned for eating the Levites showbread, and what the following phrase means:

I DESIRE MERCY NOT SACRIFICE

Matthew 12: 1-7

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."

3 He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that one [a] greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' [b] you would not have condemned the innocent.

Black Sheep

Hi Is this it?

Welcome to the forum.

I have given up debating scripture with my Dubbies. It is a waste of time. They don't believe the Bible anyway. They only give lip service to believing it.

The primary doctrine is that Jesus selected them, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication in our day. That doctrine, and everything that they claim supports it, are the only subjects worth discussing.

My Dubbies are very good at changing the subject away from that one, and it has taken me a long time to develop what it takes to wrench them back onto what I want to discuss without discussing their diversion questions.

Find a topic that they are not comfortable with, and insist on discussing it every time they bring up religion. My topic is a king list supporting 607. My Dubbies don't like that .... I do

Cheers

Chris

Krettnawe

I would disagree with you there.

First of calling them "My Dubbies" and wrapping up all of your comments in the nice bouquet of condescencion probably isnt a good way to reach anyone. I think that is perhaps why your conversations dont go anywhere with them. Plus, you try to steer the conversation in one direction rather than having the wisdom to plant and let GOD water.

Most JW's couldnt care less about any appointment in 1919. That is something most ex-JW, and anti_JW focus on because it easily attacked.

Most JW are JW because of three major doctrines:

Biggie #1 is the TRINITY

Biggie #2 is the Immortality of the Soul

Biggie #3 is HELL

Is this it?

Lots of good lines of reasoning, thanks. It was interesting to see the different translations of Acts 15 in the link above. Thanks Pirata. Have to hold back a little for a while though, or they'll think I am some kind of evil apostate!

Black sheep - 607 is another hot topic of mine too. Have even got them reading GT Reconsidered!

elder-schmelder

Simple,

If the bible was written by god then he would have told us about blood transfusions.

elder-schmelder

bohm

ITI: Welcome! As someone said, check out http://www.ajwrb.org/ . Also check out jwfacts blood article, http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php . If your family is willing to do it, show them some of the old applications of the relevant scriptures to organ donations and vaccines.

For fun, you may want to read up on how albumine is extracted from stored blood on wikipedia.

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