The Best Way to Stop a Jehovah's Witness In Their Tracks

by sabastious 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    I have thought long and hard about ways to silence a JW who is inquiring about your defection of their religion.

    They will look at you as a fool. Someone without faith and trusting in "man alone." A JW is programmed to never blame "Jehovah" for the works of any man, so if anyone leaves the "truth" because of something the Governing Body did or is doing, they look at you with pity because you have fallen into an "easily avoidable" trap, all they think you have to do is pray and rely on your Creator alone and everything will turn out ok.

    So, here is a transcript of something I am working on, it's a conversation with a JW about "your decision.":

    JW: Hey, I heard that you are not a witness anymore

    You: That is correct

    JW: Why would you ever want to leave Jehovah?

    You: Well, I don't really think im leaving God, just more the Orginization and the Governing Body

    JW: That IS Jehovah, he has appointed them over all his domestics! So leaving them is the same thing

    You: I don't really believe that

    JW: You are sounding like an apostate

    You: Hear me out, I would never ask you to leave your faith because I know how important that is to you, but for the sake of information I will tell you why I feel it is in good conscience to leave the Orginization, but before I tell you i'd just like to ask if it is ok to tell you my train of thought here

    JW: Ok

    (IF THE JW SAYS NO, THE CONVO STOPS HERE)

    You: For so many years we have all been taught about the concepts of blood guilt and keeping the congregation pure and without fermentation, right?

    JW: Yeah

    You: It's why we have things like disfellowhipping and stuff, to keep the congregation clean because a little leaven ferments the whole loaf.

    JW: Yes

    You: Well a while back I was reasearching Oral Sex because I was about to get married to my wife and wanted to know if it was okay within the marriage arangement

    (THIS CAN BE A TOPIC OF YOUR CHOICE, THE TOPIC HAS TO BE ONE THAT WAS CHANGED BY THE SOCIETY AND AFFECTED MANY LIVES)

    JW: The Watchtower says it is a conscience matter

    You: That's what I thought too, but a lot of people were counseling me to stay away from it, people that had been in the Org for a long time, so I wanted to look up what the Society said about it

    JW: Okay

    You: So I looked it up and found two types of councel. One was telling us that it was a VERY serious crime and that if you did it you had to immediatly tell the Elders about it and a judicial committee would be formed. Just like if you committed fornication.

    JW: Really? I have never read that.

    You: It's in there, it was practiced in the 70's. Then I looked up another article about it of which the Society did a complete 180 on the matter. It was now a conscience matter, which is the way it should be. I don't think our sex lives with our marriage mates should be entered by anyone.

    JW: Yeah, that makes sense.

    You: So reading this information really spurred some deep thought on my part. I thought, what happended to all those couples that had oral sex as an integral part of the sex lives for so long? What if you have been using it as foreplay for decades? Once it was turned to a DF'ing offense, that must have really affected a lot of relationships. Right?

    JW: Yeah, I could see that.

    You: Turns out it did, a lot of people broke up over it, believe it or not, sex is a really important part of a relationship and if something all of the sudden greatly affects it, it can start a snowball rolling. And another thing, what about men that were completely impotent? Oral Sex was the only way that he could satisfy his marriage mate, which is extremely important for men to feel good about themselves. Their only means of satisfaction would become a disfellowshipping offense.

    JW: Yeah, but Jehovah is always there to help you through the hard times.

    You: Yes, but here me out, I have point with all this. I was reminded of the story when Moses broke the rock with his staff and water came out saving the Israelites from dying from thirst, but he took all the credit. What happened to him?

    JW: He was punished severely, he was denied the Land of Milk and Honey

    You: Indeed. Kind David was harshly punished when he stepped over the line as well. Jehovah had a system back then that helped correct his Chosen Leaders when they made major missteps. This system is not in place today. If the Governing Body, the modern day Moses, makes very large mistakes like banning Oral Sex within the marriage arangement and then years later lifting the ban only after disfellowhipping thousands and very possibly stumbling those ones that got DF'ed they do not get corrected at all.

    JW: Okay, I'm not getting your point here? This made you leave the Truth?

    You: It wasn't the Oral Sex ban that opened my eyes specifically. It just got me thinking. Because the Governing Body has some heavty demands of us.

    JW: No they don't they just provide the food at the proper time.

    You: Yes, and that food includes not only guidelines but also Spiritual Law, punishable by Disfellowshipping. I began to research how the Governing Body presents themselves, and how they feel they relate to us the Other Sheep. What I found out is they demand unquestioning loyalty. Just a few months back in a watchtower they demanded that we never "challange the sole channel Jehovah" even in small matters like dress and grooming.

    JW: That's because they know what's best for us using Bible Principles.

    You: I have no problem with them as a guide. But I do have a problem with them as law givers and enforcers. Simply because there is no system these days to hold them accountable for making large mistakes, which are of course possible with any human if Moses and King David are capable of them.

    You: Look, this is the way I feel. There are lots of ways to look at it. If you feel fine with the current setup than all power to you. But for me, I am going to step back and watch from here on out. From what I have learned about Jehovah and Jesus is that they are loving merciful entities that have a godly form of reason. I honestly don't see myself getting destroyed in the end for following my conscience just as you and everyone else has that god given right. We as Witnesses have always believed that we have all the answers, but now I get the feeling that in the end, we will all be very surprised how it turned out.

    JW: Well, you make sense.

    You: To each his own. I understand if these views make you feel alienated from me, they are controversial to say the least. But maybe one day we can enjoy each others company as people with different views, but humans nonetheless

    JW: It was nice hearing your thoughts, have a nice day

    You: You too, but that is all they are just thoughts. Humans are ever changing, no one can predict how we will feel about something tomorrow, cercomstance has a way of flip flopping our ideals rapidly. I hope you have a great day.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    The best way to stop a Jehovahs Witness in their Tracks ..

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    @Outlaw, lol. That is plan B, maybe C.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Urk! I skimmed it - way long; I suspect that a typical JW would be hopping from one foot to the other like he needed to relieve himself by the time I got to the bottom... Good points, but I don't believe in 'god' at all.

    I like these [much shorter...] JW-in-their-tracks-stoppers...:

    (a) "I'm an apostate!" ...

    (b) "I'm a Witch/Pagan/Neo-Polytheist"... (Whoops. Forgot. You could also throw in "Devil Worshipper", if you REALLY wanted to get on their "Do Not Call" list fast!!!)

    (c) "The bible actually contains at least THREE gods: "EL" as in Isra-EL, the YHWH, and the triple god (Father, son, holy ghost) of the New Testament. So which one do you REALLY worship?" .... and

    (d) "Do you think that the REAL god would be represented by the oldest religion on the planet, or the youngest??? [wait for answer, depending on answer... either..] Why do you think god would only be found in the YOUNGEST religion, if he made all these ancient things??? [or...] Well, the bible is one of the YOUNGEST religious books on the planet; it's only 3,500 years old, but Goddess worship is AT LEAST 35,000 years old and Animism is AT LEAST 40,000 years old and may even be 80,000 years old. So why do you worship the "Johnny-come-lately-Middle-Eastern" god, again???"

    Zid

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    @zid - that is how to scare them away, which as you state is really easy :)

    It is extremely complex if you want to have them even begin to understand your stance and even possibly see where you are coming from. You will never sway a JW, but it is possible to help them see that your position is valid and that it is impossible to judge where people will be after the "JW Armageddon."

    True, it does only work if you still believe in a Creator. But the main points are still that the GB has no one to answer to, which dethrones them from law makers and enforcers. The convo can be altered fairly easily for an athiest.

  • man in black
    man in black

    so your not a witness anymore, why ?

    Tired of listening to a bunch of men who claim to have an exclusive relationship with God,

    end of story.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    @man in black - if you totally okay with being severely judged and shunned than something like that will work well.

    My post is mainly for people who are looking for understanding from the few JWs capable of understanding different views.

    This is a war, a war against prejeduce of free thinkers and our only lasting weapon is us being the bigger people and keeping our cool. SHOW them that we are as human as them, that's it's possible to have a life without "Jehovah." I know that sounds impracticle, but you could have said the same things for woman rights or slavery before they have been combatted.

  • moshe
    moshe

    JW's probably won't really listen to that discussion- the whole time you are giving that lecture they are thinking in their mind what they are going to say next. JW's don't operate by logic, otherwise, after 1975 the religion's followers would have all left the building. I can only remember one JW who inquired as to why I left their religion and I assume they were already toying with the idea of leaving the KH. .

    JW's love to tell you their story, but your "story" is just wasted time for them. Do you know that the best show stopper for me when I was a JW was only three words long. It was simply, "are you happy?" - my standard JW response was, yes, the housholder's reply was, - "you need to stop lying to yourself". She cut me off and closed the door. I don't remember any householder who tried to reason with me, but I remember that middle aged lady. She cut right to my core emotion, bypassing the JW's liar circuits. To be effective with a JW, you must not let them use any come-back scripts that they have memorized. Throw them off balance with a questions that embarrass them and humiliate them.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    looking for understanding from the few JWs capable of understanding different views

    'Few' is the operative word here. There are none of those in my family

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    My wife would try her best to overtalk me if I somehow triggered her cult personality while doing this. On a very rare occasion, she might be more at ease and in her authentic personality and allow this kind of reasoning to progress.

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