YoYo: proof?

by cynicus 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    YoYo, there is no "double fulfillment" of any prophecy given in Daniel 4. The words are clear: Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream as a prophecy that would be fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar. It was fulfilled. End of story.

    If you think there's more to it than that, then present your arguments. If you can't, then we will understand. We know perfectly well that the only reason JWs like you make sweeping claims about Daniel 4 is that your leaders have told you what to believe.

    As for the chronology stuff, it's extremely important to JWs because without it, there is no foundation for their claims about 1914, 1919 and so forth. In other words, JW leaders have no basis for claiming any sort of "spiritual authority" over people like you. Hence, your claims about Daniel 4 that are based purely on the interpretations of JW leaders are valueless.

    I find your excusatory antics quite amusing. Your understanding of JW "Bible chronology" is quite good in the sense that you believe exactly what your leaders appear to have told you. For example, you've claimed that the Nabonidus Chronicle shows the year when Babylon fell, but others have shown that it contains no mention of anything that could date the events to any particular year. Why do you have such a misunderstanding of this important ancient document? Because the Society's words about it have often been misleading. Think about that.

    AlanF

  • ianao
    ianao

    Typical convo with YoYoMama...

    [I] Hello I'm Ianao. What is your name?

    [Y] Excuse me, you wish to know my name? Why?

    [I] Hey I was just being friendly!

    [Y] Are you usually friendly with strangers? Why would I want to talk to you?

    [I] Man, why don't you go take a pill or something!

    [Y] Are you insinuating that I use drugs? What kind of bad things happen in today's society due to the missuse of drugs?

    [I] Oh bite me!

    [Y] Are you not capable of a normal discussion? What's wrong with you?

    [I] walks off while giving the yoyo the "two finger salute".

  • Budda Belly
    Budda Belly

    Yo Yo,

    You plan on answering my question
    regarding Jesus Sheep????

    BB

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama

    I have no further comment regarding the 607 BCE and the 539 BCE date. I will have to do some more research on that subject.

    Now regarding Daniel Chapter 4:

    YoYo, there is no "double fulfillment" of any prophecy given in Daniel 4. The words are clear: Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream as a prophecy that would be fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar. It was fulfilled. End of story.

    Is that all there is to the matter? There is no basis for doubt that Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the heaven-high tree was prophetic, it being inspired by Jehovah God. But is the dream’s fulfillment limited to that ancient fulfillment on the person of one man, King Nebuchadnezzar, for him to learn a lesson regarding rulership? Is it through his personal experience that the purport of Jehovah’s dealing with him is achieved, namely, “that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind”? (Daniel 4:17) By setting up over the kingdom of mankind “even the lowliest one of mankind” does the Most High God set up over mankind the lowest grade of rulership over mankind? Evidently not! (Daniel 4:36, 37)

    So Nebuchadnezzar’s dream must have a further fulfillment.

    The heaven-high, life-sustaining tree of the dream symbolized the UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY of the Most High, Jehovah God, particularly in its relationship with our earth. This Universal Sovereignty is eternal, “to time indefinite,” for all generations.

    For a long period of time Jehovah’s Universal Sovereignty was represented here on earth. This was by means of the kingdom of Israel. Specially with King David.

    King David had the sacred Ark of the Covenant of Jehovah brought into the city and placed in a tent pitched near his royal palace. Thus, as it were, Jehovah began to reign in Israel’s capital Jerusalem, and the Israelite king was said to sit upon “Jehovah’s throne.” (1 Chronicles 29:23; 16:1-31) Repeatedly King David acknowledged Jehovah to be his heavenly King, the real Ruler of Israel. (Psalms 5:2; 24:7-10; 68:24; 145:1) Certainly, then, the kingdom centered at Jerusalem with David and his royal descendants sitting there on “Jehovah’s throne” represented Jehovah’s Universal Sovereignty with reference to our earth.

    In the dream, that all-dominating tree was chopped down. True to that dream, Divine Sovereignty as exercised through the line of Davidic kings at Jerusalem was chopped down, toppled, put out of operation. When? When Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon brought destruction upon Jerusalem and its temple and carried off its last enthroned king, Zedekiah of David’s family, into exile to die there. Jehovah himself had the symbolic tree of sovereignty chopped down, for he himself used Nebuchadnezzar as his “servant” to bring about this overthrow. Jehovah himself took the responsibility for overturning this visible expression of his sovereignty toward our earth. (Jeremiah 25:8-11, 17-29; Ezekiel 21:22-27).

    For how long was this debased appearance of Jehovah’s Universal Sovereignty to continue? For “seven times,” which were prophetically illustrated by the “seven years” of Nebuchadnezzar’s dethronement for him to live like a beast of the field.

    So my question to you is, how much time do “seven times” cover?

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama

    Budda Belly: I don't recall your question, can you email me?

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    There is no basis for doubt that Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the heaven-high tree was prophetic, it being inspired by Jehovah God.

    lol. You must have lower standards for doubt than me. On what basis did you conclude that this came from God?

  • ianao
    ianao

    Well, I am shocked. But, the YoYo finally said:

    "I have no further comment regarding the 607 BCE and the 539 BCE date. I will have to do some more research on that subject."

    Looks like this thread is finished.

  • Lionel_P_Hartley
    Lionel_P_Hartley

    YoYoMama,

    "I have no further comment regarding the 607 BCE and the 539 BCE date. I will have to do some more research on that subject."

    That is good - if it's true and not just a way to move on to another topic. How about forgetting Daniel for the time being and doing your research.

    I am sorry to remind you. once again, of the 1965 WT article "Can you Defend Your Faith?" But it is relevant. You spend, presumably, all that time at meetings, assemblies, etc., and you preach the 1914 date either explicitly or implicitly (these are the last days). Yet, you are unable to defend your faith. Whose fault is that? Please think seriously about that question - is it not the fault of those who taught you? Don;t you think that in all that time you spent studying you should have a sound knowledge and be able to defend your beliefs. After all, the WTS in that article used the lack of ability to defend their beliefs as a way to demonstrate that the Catholic Church was false.

    Similar things could be said about a host of other doctrines - blood, creative days, etc. And, in all cases an "overnight telegram to WTS headquarters" asking for clarification would produce what? Well, nothing as has been demonstrated many times.

    The sad truth is that you cannot defend your faith because the leaders cannot do so either.

    AlanF well demonstrated that in this thread.

    LPH

  • YoYoMama
    YoYoMama

    Hartley:

    The truth is that I CAN defend my faith just fine. The 1914 date is derived through Bible Chronology, whether you agree with that or not, that's your problem. It is also derived from what has happened since the year 1914, no one can deny that.

    You are attempting to belittle me and my faith with your post, to prove yourself rightous. My faith in Christ, Jehovah, the Bible and what will be coming in the future is strong. Bottom line is that Jesus is reigning at this time and will soon prove to all mockers who he approves and disapproves.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey yo-yo,Larsguy is a gay,black female impersonater,who thinks he`s Jesus and he`s ready to judge you!.LOL...OUTLAW

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